The background is that I was a First Amendment lawyer for many years at the American Civil Liberties Union. By the mid-90’s it became clear to me that a lot of the censorship issues that we were confronting on a daily basis were premised on a widespread assumption (rarely analyzed or discussed in any depth) that we needed to have censorship to protect minors. Some people thought that any sexually explicit information in education, art, or any form of entertainment, was harmful to minors. Of course, those are very broad categories. I came to the conclusion that I hadn’t seen any good resources exploring the history of this assumption or analyzing what it really meant and to what extent it was true, so I decided to take some time off and try to do a really thorough research job. And I wanted to produce a book that would be useful in what I anticipated would be ongoing debates about minors and censorship and free expression, especially with the internet and all the fears that surrounded the development of that new technology. As I was doing research, the topic grew from what had begun essentially as a legal history of how indecency to minors and censorship laws came into being into a much more thorough examination of cultural history and social science research on media violence. One of the points you make in your book is that many of the arguments are based on the presumed innocence of children. You have mentioned in your book that in the past children weren’t always presumed innocent. The innocence that you refer to is generally in a sexual sense. Children are ignorant for the most part of sexual facts but it’s not at all clear that they are innocent of sexual impulses. In fact the contrary is true; and I began to look into that particular notion. I found that even in the West, in Western Europe, the notion that children had to be protected from sexual information or coarse language because of their so-called sexual innocence, didn’t become a strongly held belief, an institutionally and socially-enforced belief, until about the late 17th century. Then what you see is the development of some rather appalling measures for controlling sexual practices, such as youthful masturbation. Then finally by the end of the 19th century, you begin to have obscenity and indecency controls to censor what might be considered erotically arousing literature, again ostensibly in the interests of protecting innocent children. Throughout its history the Supreme Court seems to have used different standards in determining whether something should be censored or not. ‘Offends taste’ seems to be behind many of the decisions rather than an actual ‘does harm to children’ or ‘community standards’ idea. Could you talk about some of the different standards? What do you see prevailing right now? These first obscenity laws explicitly incorporated what was going to be criminally prosecutable and suppressible in the area of sexual artistry or expression: that which might deprave and corrupt a vulnerable mind. And that was in fact the obscenity standard for art and literature for the next hundred years. Only gradually did judges in both England and America realize that this meant we were essentially reducing the availability of literature and art for the entire adult population to what was thought would not be too shocking to a kindergartner. Gradually the obscenity standard got narrowed, but meanwhile the politics of ‘harm to minors,’ the political rhetoric, and the strong feelings and anxieties that surrounded what was appropriate in terms of education, continued to be a very powerful political issue. Other standards then came into play, which the book documents–hopefully in a fashion that is both interesting and readable, and at times humorousbecause it is humorous, especially when you get into the Federal Communications Commission and its Indecency Standard. That Standard focuses largely on the use of certain words that are considered vulgar, such as where the FCC punished a radio station for an interview with the rock guitarist Jerry Garcia because he used expletives. There are lots of other instances where literary readings, discussions among community members about Gay rights, and other subjects were considered taboo and were found to violate this Indecency Standard–which is very broad and wide-ranging and basically turns on whether a particular community considers something to be patently offensive. There’s yet another standard, the harm to minors standard, which is sort of in between. It has a huge number of problems in terms of what age group we’re talking about, i.e., what is harmful to a17-year old is not the same as what might be considered inappropriate or harmfuland the words are not clearly distinguishedto a 10-year old. These standards are important now that we have the internet, which has generated a whole new round of extremely problematic censorship laws–basically driven by this widespread fear of kids encountering pornography on the internet. This is something that happens, and probably will continue to happen, as long as kids find sex to be an interesting subject. We have had three internet censorship laws. The first used this very broad Indecency Standard, and was struck down by the Supreme Court; the second used the somewhat narrower Harmful to Minors Standard, and is currently under consideration; and the third is a standard which doesn’t use any standard at all. It delegates censorship responsibility to privately manufactured internet filters. Can you briefly summarize what the issues are with the internet filters? Filters are mechanical creations of private companies that by definition have to rely on mechanical means in large part in order to determine what should be blocked, because there are considerably more than a billion internet sites. The first major problem is that they essentially rely on key words and phrases, which has led to numerous examples of blocked sites that are not in any way sexual or otherwise problematic. My particular favorite example is the library at the University of Kansas, ‘Archie Barr Dykes Memorial Library.’ There are numerous other examples: ‘pussy willows,’ ‘at least 18,’ etc. Sometimes it’s a phrase, not a word. You’ll find those phrases on porn sites, but you’ll also find them on lots of other news, journalistic, etc., sites. The companies say, ‘oh, we don’t use keywords any more. That was a problem with the very primitive first, generation internet filtering software.’ But of course they do. They call it artificial intelligence, but it amounts to keywords and phrases found in certain combinations, and if they are found frequently enough on certain pages, those pages are automatically blocked. These censorship devices vastly over-block in a way that’s mindless. The second problem is that, to the extent they do have individuals reviewing content, they’re going to be doing it according to the particular moral, political and religious ideological attitudes of the filter manufacturers. These are private companies and it’s in fact been documented recently that a number of them have strong ties to the religious right, which sort of makes sense because that is a portion of the political spectrum that is very interested in censorship according to its own moral views. So, for example, even when you get outside the area of sexual content, a lot of these filters have numerous categories, and you, or the schools, or the library, can decide which categories to activate. One example would be ‘Alternative Lifestyles’ or ‘Occult.’ In both of those there’s tremendous room for subjectivity in deciding what is ‘occult,’ and what is a form of religious expression that’s not mainstream. So you immediately have discrimination against non-mainstream religious beliefs. It’s the same with Alternative Lifestyles. Does it exclude all Gay and Lesbian sites? And finally, the internet filters are produced by private companies. They are mainly interested in profit; they keep their particular technologies and, in many cases, their lists of blocked sites secret. When you have a law like the Children’s Internet Protection Act**, just passed at the end of 2000, and it mandates that all schools and libraries that receive forms of Federal financial assistance for internet access install these filters, then what congress has done is to order schools and libraries around the country to turn over their educational decision-making to these private, profit-making, secretive, companies. Amazon.com seems to have a filter for books that we list, i.e., won’t let us list books with ‘Washita River’ in the title. That’s picking out words within the middle of a word and seems a totally unrefined kind of system. It’s especially sad when a bookseller is going to adopt one of these filters. In your writings you indicate censorship can be traced to Plato and his proscriptions. We know that he didn’t think poetry was of the gods, and essentially established a state of “wise” men to censor. Do you want to explain a little bit more? And also tell us the tradition on which you base the principle of freedom of expression. I got interested in Plato both because I wanted to do a thorough job and because one of the important school censorship cases of in the late 90’s was based on his views. A lot of censorship of kids happens in the school environment and in litigation in that area. The courts have gotten more conservative in respecting the free expression rights of teachers and students. In one such case, a drama teacher was punished for teaching her advanced acting class a play that, like a lot of theater throughout history, dealt with some difficult scenes–in this case, divorce and homosexuality. Some community members complained, the teacher got punished, and a lawsuit got filed which rejected the teacher’s claim that her rights were in any way infringed by this punishment. The court, a very conservative Court of Appeals, quoted Plato’s Republic. I start the book with a quote from Plato, which is, of course, an argument for a completely totalitarian society run bysometimes the translation is philosopher kings but the actual closer translation is ‘guards.’ They are to censor anything that is considered immoral or inappropriate, including tales of the gods and heroes because they often had sexual adventures. Plato’s Republic especially proscribes strict censorship for the young because they are considered to be very impressionable, and should not hear anything but virtuous thoughts. That Platonic tradition of strict censorship and suspicion of art, expression and free thought– that view of art– is what we would call a reductive view of art. It is a view that doesn’t take into account ambiguity or irony, or the notion that different people process the same material in different ways. It also doesn’t take into account the well-known cathartic function of art where you have something very violent represented and it does not, for the most part, cause someone to go imitate the art but instead seems to have a cathartic effect of purging angry and violent impulses. In this view, art has a releasing effect. Plato was not interested in any such complexities of subject matter; instead had a more straightforward reductive view, i.e., if you see something violent and you have an impressionable mind, you will become a violent person yourself. So there was that tradition which we still have with us in our very contemporary debates over media violence. The countervailing tradition I trace to Aristotle who was, of course, a student of Plato. Aristotle first articulated the notion of catharsis as he observed it in audiences watching Greek tragic dramas. This is an idea that can also be traced through history, and Freud understood the cathartic process of dreams and play, children’s play. People today, in this area of politics and censoring youth, sometimes confuse fantasy and fantasy play with aggressive tendencies in real life. So you have these two conflicting views of how bardic expression impacts on people. Those are reflected in the legal arguments over free expression and the First Amendment. Those who would oppose censorship even for young people, and would support more of an intellectual freedom approach, generally understand literature and art and information and expression not to have simplistically reductive effects, but to be processed by human beings in very individualistic ways. With the internet, is there a move even now to have the standard be what is appropriate for children even though adults are using the internet? Yes, that is in fact the inevitable effect of these internet censorship laws. In fact, the primary reason for the very first of them, the Communications Decency Act of ’96, incorporated this very broad FCC indecency standard to censorship of the entire internet. The primary reason that law was struck down, the Court said, was that it reduces the adult population of publishers and speakers and readers and viewers on the internet to what it considered only appropriate to children, and that clearly violates the First Amendment. That’s a well-established principle, although it wasn’t always. The problem with the internet is that to some extent unmonitored content can be directed at kids. If you have a bookstore or video store and somebody who obviously looks young wants to rent a video from the adult section, the clerk at the store can ask for ID if they think the transaction might run afoul of the state harmful to minors law. But an adult would have access to that video. On the internet, there’s no clerk looking to see if you’re over or under 18. As the Act developed, it became obvious that any attempt to have an adult ID system to screen out minors from so-called ‘indecent content’ would be very expensive, very burdensome, and very problematic. This, combined with the fact the indecency standard was incredibly broad and nobody really knew what ‘patently offensive’ meant, was fatal to that first internet law. But the problem of not being able to identify who is a kid online plagues any effort to censor the internet. So this is a continuing problem. The most recent of the internet censorship laws, which we’ve already talked about a little–the one that requires internet filters to be installed in schools and libraries (called the Children’s Internet Protection Act**, so who of course could vote against it)–doesn’t only apply to children. All computers in schools, even if they’re only computers used by staff and teachers, have to have filters. All computers in libraries have to have filters. So again this ‘harmful to minors’ rhetoric gets used and it’s really an open question. There are a lot of people who sincerely believe yes, minors have to be censored, they are impressionable. They may only disagree about what. There are a lot of others, however, who use the ‘harmful to minors’ rhetoric but what they are really after is censoring the entire community. And that is reflected in some of these very broad laws and proposals. You seem to have suggested that the courts follow public opinion, at some times strong on censorship, at others, more for free expression. Oh sure. I’ve practiced civil liberties law long enough to know that the courts are always responsive to public opinion. As Mr. Dewey said, “The Supreme Court Justices follow the headlines.” That’s not to say there isn’t some legal reasoning involved and that on occasion you may actually find a judge who sticks to principles. But particularly in areas like the First Amendment where there’s a constant balancing of societal interests, you can see quite clearly that the courts are responding to the social pressures. What Supreme Court Justice has been the most helpful in clarifying and opening up First Amendment rights? William Brennan. He was a Justice who really grew. He was responsive. He had basically liberal instincts but he was very much a product of his time and early on he was responsive to politics and society round him, as judges inevitably are. Brennan even though we think of him as a great champion of civil liberties and especially the First Amendmentwas in fact the architect not only of our obscenity laws but also the ‘harmful to minors’ law. In 1957, the court decided two cases. The first was a case in which the court attempted to delineate the line between obscenity that could be punished/prosecuted/suppressed and other art and information and speech about sexual subjects. The case is Roth v. the United States, and Brennan wrote the opinion. There were hopes among publishers and writers and others who were free-expression friendly that the Court would find that the First Amendment did not permit obscenity laws. Brennan didn’t do that. He crafted a compromise that narrowly defined what would be considered obscene and therefore punishable. About 16-17 years later (and in the interim there had been a lot of obscenity cases), Brennan came to realize there was no way to define obscenity: that this dividing line was imaginary and it had to turn on notions that were so subjective and vague that they couldn’t put any writer or publisher on notice of what was really on the wrong side of the line. But Brennan grew and evolved and changed his mind; and he started dissenting in obscenity cases. He said that free expression is more important, that obscenity laws are chilling, and there’s just no way to know what these terms like ‘prurient interest’ or ‘patently offensive’ mean. After Roth, Brennan crafted this standard that I’ve referred to as the ‘harmful to minors standard,’ which is basically a variant on obscenity because he was responding to the common societal presumption that it was appropriate to have censorship for kids on materials that could not be censored for adults. He acknowledged such terms in the case of Ginsberg v. New York, the prosecution of a poor candy store owner who had sold a couple of girlie magazines to a 16-year old boy. The prosecution was upheld on the theory that censorship of this constitutionally-protected and fairly mild material was inappropriate for youth. But in his decision, Brennan said there was no empirical basis to believe these magazines would be harmful to minors, although the court would accept the New York Legislature’s judgment: that certain materials would somehow impair the ethical and moral development of youth. He had bought into a kind of notion of moralistic censorship, not that it hurts youth, but that society has an interest in communicating a message of disapproval to youth. Brennan never explicitly rejected the reasoning of that case as he did reject in later years the reasoning of the Roth case. The last case I’ll mention is the Pacifica case, the ‘seven dirty words case,’ in which the Supreme Court by a very narrow vote upheld the FCC’s authority to punish radio and TV broadcasters for anything they considered to be indecent. Brennan writes a very impassioned and powerful dissent saying that the Justices are simply imposing their own conservative moral views on a very diverse American public, and that not all parents in our pluralistic society believe that hearing four-letter words is going to be harmful to their kids. One of the commentaries on Amazon.uk criticizes your book for not taking into account ‘the increasing intrusiveness of sexually explicit materials into homes.’ The idea of intrusiveness and invasiveness seems to have become a significant argument. The commentator wants to keep the intrusive “garbage” and “poison” out of his house. The invasiveness argument comes from the Pacifica case where the Supreme Court went out on a very long limb and adopted the FCC’s argument that radio and television could be censored in a way that printed material such as books and magazines could not, because they were invasive and they came into the home uninvited. Which of course is silly because you don’t have to turn them on any more than you have to buy a book or a newspaper. That argument was again used in the Communications Decency Act case: that the internet comes into your home uninvited and therefore full First Amendment protection shouldn’t apply. The Supreme Court rejected that argument. To move away from the legal to the practical for a moment, that critic is voicing what is an understandable and fairly common concern among parents: that there’s no way you can put your kid in a fishbowl and prevent them from being exposed to mass media culture. ‘Garbage,’ yes. ‘Poison,’ they’re not. They are products of the human mind and cannot be reduced to a sort of physical nuisance. They have to be treated differently because they are in the realm of art and ideas and expression, which isn’t to say that there isn’t a lot of bad stuff out there. So how we respond to the concerns about intellectual or cultural ‘garbage?’ I address this by talking about the essential ineffectiveness of censorship and the possibly greater effectiveness of non-censorial methods of educating or socializing youth into being able to make judgments on their own, and being able to reject what are bad messages in popular culture. One of the ways that is encouraged in the U.S. is through media literacy education. We all need to be more critical consumers of mass media and there are ways, starting in the early grades, to teach kids to understand that ads they see on TV can be understood as expressing a certain ideology, or certain messages, or reflecting certain stereotypes, and that they can’t just take them all as gospel truth. They have to be more critical in their viewing of culture. That’s a way of actually immunizing kids that is better than rating schemes, filters, and indecency laws. Do you find any country that comes close to assuring the First Amendment freedoms that you are bringing forth? We are the only ones with the First Amendment, although there are many countries with similar provisions, and even some international conventionslike the European Convention on Human Rights–which concludes basically that the censorship impulse is very powerful in all cultures and using kids as the focus for the taboos and anxieties of a certain culture, is very common. So that is common to all cultures, but what is very different is the actual subject matter that is thought to be dangerous, harmful, offensive and inappropriate. In many European cultures, sexual explicitness and sexual information are just not considered of grave concern. In fact, it’s thought that children should get early, explicit, sex education. The basic conclusion is that what any particular culture considers harmful or inappropriate to kids is very much culture driven. And we know very littleobjectivelyabout what, if any, art information, entertainment, expression, is going to have a truly psychological harmful or traumatic effect. Probably those kinds of judgments are just too individualized, and it depends on the child’s particular upbringing, temperament and intellect in every case. I guess the best answer is that most Western societies (and many other societies) at this point have some kind of free expression principle like the First Amendment in their legal system. But, as in America, how that’s played out how the courts and other institutions balance the free expression principle with other countervailing principles that are thought to be important– is driven by the particular culture. In the European Court of Human Rights on censorship, one famous case involved a sex education pamphlet that was developed in the 1960’s and was distributed all over Europe. In England it was called the Little Red School Book, and in England they decided that this had to be suppressed to protect children from unconventional ideas about sexuality. The case went all the way to the Court of Human Rights, which deferred to the judgment of the English establishment–that this had to be censored because, they said, you had to balance the free expression principle and the European Convention of Human Rights against the particular interests of the society in protecting youth. So it was a balancing that depended very much on cultural attitudes in particular countries. Let’s talk for a minute about the relationship between reading something and actually acting it out on the streets, both in terms of adults and children violence, sex, taking a political position (putting a peace symbol on the flag), etc. Out of this complex of ideas it seems that Andrea Dworkin and Catharine MacKinnon developed their ordinance. In the mid 1980’s they became famous for propounding a new theory of censorship of sexual entertainment or expression that would be subordinating to women, and their theory was that exposure to this kind of expression would condition men to become rapists and very misogynistic, and associate sex with violence. They managed to get their ordinance passed in Indianapolis and it was challenged by the American Booksellers Association, and was struck down as a violation of the First Amendment. Unlike obscenity laws, the MacKinnon/Dworkin ordinance did not have any protection for material that had serious educational or artistic or literary value. If it was subordinating to women, and had sexual content, it could be censored. The court said that was pretty clearly ‘viewpoint discrimination’ censoring material that, despite its value, censors might disagree with. In Canada, the Canadian Supreme Court was persuaded to interpret the existing censorship law there as barring material that had this viewpoint of subordination in sexual relationships. One of the ironies of that decision was that the police and prosecutors and communities around the country, as well as the Customs Service in Canada, began to apply that through their own particular attitudes of what was subordinating. They targeted largely Gay and Lesbian and Feminist material, some of which had sexual content and some of which had very little sexual content. I think of one instance in which one author whose name had a Gay connotation but who wasn’t a Gay author, got held up in Customs. The Gay and Lesbian bookstore in Toronto was targeted, also. It was a good illustration of what anti-censorship Feminists who opposed MacKinnon/Dworkin had been saying for a long time: that if you give the government the power to censor they are going to do it according to their prevailing ideology and not what you may have anticipated or looked for, and so it’s basically a bad idea. In some of your earlier work you addressed issues that weren’t about freedom of expression. Can you tell us a little bit about “Strictly Ghetto Property”. It was my first book, I was about 25, I was not a lawyer. It was about a political trial in San Francisco, involving six young Latin American activists who were charged with murdering a police officer. It became a cause celebre in the community. I was at that time a writer for alternative newspapers, and I started covering the case as it developed for some of these alternative newspapers. I eventually got asked by Ramparts Magazine, which just decided to start a little publishing house, to write a book about the case. “Strictly Ghetto Property” came out in ’75 and Ramparts Press shortly thereafter went out of business, so the book got lost. So it’s a bit of a collectors’ item and it’s an important little piece of San Francisco history. Every so often I get a call or an email from the activists in the Mission District of San Francisco who want the book as the basis for a film or a play–so it has a bit of an underground reputation. It actually doesn’t read too badly even after all these years. “Cutting the Mustard”, what about that book? “Cutting the Mustard” I wrote after I’d been in law practice for about five years and it was inspired by a case I litigated against Boston University. That case had some discrimination and free expression elements to it since it involved a woman who was fired from her position as Dean of Students at the School of Theology because the Dean of the school thought she was not adequately representing his political view on various sensitive issues like Affirmative Action. She had been involved in protesting along with students and other faculty a couple of hiring decisions, or refusals to hire, of a prominent Feminist scholar and a young Black scholar. The Boston School of Theology, it turns out, had a very rich tradition of social justice. For instance, Martin Luther King, Jr. studied there. So the faculty was much more activist and liberal than the Dean who had been appointed by the President of BU, John Silber, who is well-known for very conservative views. It became a very interesting case study in academic politics with a strong dose of religious politics thrown in. I represented the fired Dean of Students in what was ultimately an unsuccessful lawsuit, relying on various theories under discrimination law including retaliating against somebody who protested what they thought were discriminatory decisionslike this failure to hire this feminist professor. We lost the case in front of a jury but there was so much interesting history involved in the case–the memos that went back and forth and the struggle for the soul of this schoolthat I got it out of my system by writing a book called “Cutting the Mustard”, about the case and the larger debate over affirmative action in universities. And “Sex, Sin and Blasphemy”? Well, to continue the biography. At the time I litigated the BU School of Theology case, I was a young lawyer at the Massachusetts Office of the American Civil Liberties Union, and I remained there doing civil rights and civil liberties work for a number of years. Then in the early 90’s, I came to the national office of the ACLU in New York to start a project on art censorship. That was just around the time the National Endowment for the Arts became front page news because Jesse Helms and others were complaining that it had funded inappropriate art work by Robert Mappelthorpe and a number of other artists. In the late 80’s and early 90’s obscenity laws for the past 20 years at least had been generally understood as primarily directed against hard-core pornography. But in ’89 and ’90, obscenity laws started to be used by prosecutors in a couple of places to go after non-pornographythe famous prosecution of the Cincinnati Art Museum for exhibiting a retrospective show of Robert Mapplethorpe’s works, for example. They were prosecuted for obscenity and that was quite unusual. Rap groups and music stores were prosecuted under obscenity laws for rap music. All of this led to the creation of an Arts Censorship Project at the national office of the ACLU. About two years into that job, the New Press, which is a non-profit social justice-oriented small press in New York City and which had worked with ACLU people on a couple of books, asked me to do a little guide book on censorship issues. So “Sex, Sin and Blasphemy” came out in ’93 and the 2nd edition came out in ’98 with some updated material on the lawsuit against the National Endowment for the Arts–or rather challenging some censorship provision that Congress had forced down the throat of the National Endowment for the Arts–and some other updating. It’s really a guide book, unlike “Not in Front of the Children”, which is an attempt to be a more in-depth and scholarly investigation of a particular issue down through history. “Sex, Sin and Blasphemy” is certainly shorter and simpler, and has fewer footnotes. Some have said that the difference between erotica and pornography is nothing more than a class difference, a coffee table book versus a mass market paperback. Any comments? Actually I talk about this a little in “Sex, Sin and Blasphemy” where I say erotica is sexually arousing material that you like, and pornography is sexually arousing material that you disapprove of or find offensive. Both terms are very subjective; neither has any specific legal definition to it and pornography has certainly gotten a bad reputation if used in a pejorative sense more often than erotica. I don’t see any real distinction, and as you suggest it may very well be class-based. What led you to become interested in First Amendment rights, and moving from writing for alternative newspapers to becoming an attorney for civil right, on to becoming an attorney for free expression? I was a 60’s kid, I went to college in the 60’s, and became involved in the anti-Viet Nam War movement. I also was an English major and really loved literature and film, and had a passionate appreciation for books and literature and art. As the 60’s came to a close, it became clear that the movementthe New Lefthad deteriorated, had disintegrated, very fast. I became interested in the history of social reform and radical movements in the United States, and why they disappear so fast and do not leave much of a tradition or institutional memory. I began to do some reading, including reading on periods of political repression like the Hollywood blacklist and the McCarthy era, the ways in which professors, writers and artists were censored, and interestingly, the ways in which–until the political winds began to change a little bit–the Supreme Court was of very little use in protecting against these kinds of blacklists and witch hunts. That sort of aroused my interest in the First Amendment and the history of censorship and dissent in art. I went to law school and was lucky enough fairly early in my legal career to start working for the ACLU. So, when the censorship controversies started in the late 80’s and early 90’s, because I had a longstanding interest in art and literature, this seemed like a good fit. So I went down to the national ACLU and started this arts censorship project, and I’m not bored with it yet. I left the ACLU in 98′ to write “Not in Front of the Children”. I had a grant, which helped me to do that. Then in 2000, I came to the National Coalition Against Censorship to start a little think-tank called the Free Expression Policy Project. It is housed here at the National Coalition, but it’s independent. We’re putting out policy reports and trying to find public policy solutions to some of these perennial censorship issues–solutions that would not involve censorshipmedia literacy education being one example. To finish, then, with “Not in Front of the Children”. The cover of the book has a puckish, perhaps even mischievous sense about it. With the cherub-like figures sporting the sign “not in front of the children,” and the sexual background, it seems that there is a certain sense of humor being promoted with regard to a very serious issue. Who designed the cover? You? The publisher? The publisher designed the cover. But the publisher sometimes asks the author for suggestions. In this case I had collected a number of reproductions of art wok that I particularly liked and, of course, in the history of Western and Eastern art sexuality, nudity, children and adolescents, are very common scenes. This Correggio painting is of Danae receiving the shower of gold from Zeus. Danae was a young adolescent girl and Zeus a very randy god who wants to have sex with her. So we decided to use it for the cover. There was a little difference of opinion over the bright yellow parental advisory stickers they wanted to put on it. Although I am all in favor of humor I was not sure that those bright yellow stickers didn’t communicate in some way a less than totally serious purpose. But in any event, a number of people have liked it and by now I’m quite used to it. Let me thank you for taking us down this serious, even if sometimes humorous, introduction to the ideas behind censorship. Barbara Lightner **In May of 2002, a Federal Appeals Court struck down portions of the Child’s Internet Protection Act (CIPA) that would have required libraries to use filters, saying the act violated First Amendment rights. The Justice Department expressed dissatisfaction with the decision but has not as of this date, appealed. #authors

Anirvan Chatterjee and Charlie Hsu, BookFinder.com To start off, Anirvan, you’ve been generous with information about yourself, somewhat generous with information about Charlie (let’s see if we can’t get you out and talking about yourself, Charlie) and very generous with information about BookFinder.com. If I may, though, I’m going to dig a bit deeper. You’re both twentysomethings living in a high tech area, based as you are in Berkeley, CA, doing high tech work and, in many ways, living the “good life.” From what you’ve written, Anirvan, can we assume that running BookFinder.com doesn’t leave much time for either of you to be party (or family) animals? Is it all work and no play, aside from work and reading, though? Some questions for you both follow. Anirvan and Charlie, do you see yourselves continuing to run BookFinder.com for many years, or forever, or??? Do you think, since you have so many of the programming problems solved and have the site running smoothly, that it will continue to be gratifying emotionally, financially and intellectually for both of you? Anirvan: Many things get easier over time, but there are always new challenges to be met. For example, we’ve been working for over a year now on a set of infrastructure improvements to BookFinder.com that (among many other things) will help users search for books in languages other than English. I’m currently working on a project to figure out how we can best improve new users’ experience with the site. This stuff goes on. I love what I do, and I’m fortunate to be able to work with good friends. I can’t imagine being bored anytime soon. Charlie: I think Anirvan has said a lot of what I would say. While many problems are solved, there are always more problems to tackle, more interesting things to try. Anirvan, when you originally conceived of the idea of a multi-database book search, what triggered the idea, i.e., was it being unable to find books you personally wanted, or what? How did you go about deciding what would work as a metasearch through book databases? Was it a trial and error process, or one of those inspired ideas that seem to sprout full-grown into your consciousness? Did you talk this idea over with Charlie at the time? Anirvan: I got interested in developing a book search tool based directly on my experiences as a book shopper. I’d been buying books online for some time, particularly stuff that I couldn’t find locally. Jumping between sites in order to check on prices and availability got frustrating very quickly. Developing a metasearch system was a way of scratching that itch. In the fall of 1996, while I was an undergraduate at UC Berkeley, I took an information science seminar on the theory and practice of network agent systems. We had to develop a prototype network agent system as a class project; I chose to build a network agent that would help me find and buy books. The site grew from there. I got an ‘A’ in the class, and I put a version of the software online in January 1997. I made pretty heavy use of the software early on to help me complete my collection of Doonesbury titles — nearly fifty volumes in total, most out of print. Most of the improvements to the site came incrementally. I didn’t initially think of including options to search for signed books or first editions, or even a keywords field. We’ve continuously been making little tweaks here and there, often based on user feedback. Charlie, when did you first start working with Anirvan on the book-search database? And does BookFinder.com, as a mental and professional challenge, suit you still? Charlie: Officially, I started working with BookFinder.com after I graduated from UC Davis in 1999. Unofficially, I’d been helping out since even before the site was launched in 1997. I even built the site’s first server, back in the very beginning. BookFinder.com suits me as a challenge because it lets me do things I wouldn’t normally get to do. Running a small business, you have to become proficient in a lot of skills. BookFinder.com helps keep me from being pigeonholed into just being a coder. Charlie and Anirvan, is one or the other of you the “idea” person and the other the “programming person”? Or do you both work on all functions of your business? Anirvan: We both do programming and planning/design stuff. We handle different parts of the technology — Charlie works with the databases and the complex guts of the system, I work with the interface and search code. Otherwise, I’m more involved with marketing, advertising sales, bookseller relations, etc. Charlie handles the financial and legal side of the business. That’s just us; we also have part-timers and consultants working on support, marketing, design, accounting, etc. Running a site like BookFinder.com is a big job! Anirvan and Charlie, can you foresee BookFinder.com morphing into metasearches for other products besides books? Charlie: We’ve thought about metasearching other types of products, but decided against it. Every kind of product has its own complexity. The technology is only one part of building a comparison shopping engine and, at least to a technologist like me, the easier side. There’s a huge amount of knowledge about books and the online book industry that we’ve accumulated, which we use while working on the site. It would take a long time to get that knowledge in other fields. Anirvan and Charlie, has the overall super-abundance of more common books and part-time booksellers affected your business negatively or positively (aside from requiring more computing resources, of course)? Anirvan: Compared to two years ago, we’ve found that when given the choice, somewhat fewer users opt to buy new books, perhaps due to the greater availability of cheap used copies. Not much else. We identify a lot with booksellers but, in the end, our allegiance is to the customer; the presence of “kitchen table” booksellers and larger online inventories helps consumers by increasing selection, and driving down prices. Anirvan and Charlie, I read in one of your press releases that there are 40,000 of us booksellers online now: was this a mistake or are there truly that many people listing used books online now (last I’d heard was around 10,000)? For instance, I wondered if many of us listing on several databases had inflated the apparent number of booksellers. Anirvan: We include in our count the most active “kitchen table” booksellers from sites like Half.com; the figure’s not inflated. Both of you, again. Do you have any plans (that you wouldn’t mind giving away, of course) about other types of businesses, whether computer or book-based or not, that either of you are considering or would be interested in for the future? Anirvan: We see a lot of room for growth in the used book area. Most of our future plans revolve around that sector. Both of you, why do you continue with BookFinder.com Insider? Even with it being an essentially unmoderated list, it must take many hours of your time and add to your work week. Do you get ideas about what’s needed for your business from the list? Do you just enjoy the chatter of book people? Even though we all love having the list I know we must drive you nuts at times, and I’m curious about why you put up with some of our antics. Anirvan: We love the list. It’s frustrating to run at times, but we get a lot out of it. As with many list members, being involved with the Insider list is a way for us to keep an ear to the ground of what’s going on in the world of online bookselling. We’ve also really gotten to know some of the list members. The community’s crucial; the BookFinder.com Insider started off as a stale tech support mailing list — it’s the list’s members that give it some soul. Charlie, how did you and Anirvan meet (I know it was during high school, but what brought and kept you two together)? Were you both “into” information technology as it existed then? Charlie: We actually met in the locker bays of our junior high school. The lockers were assigned alphabetically by last name. I had a good friend whose last name was Chang. Anirvan’s last name is Chatterjee, so the three of us met by my friend’s locker. We all started talking, and eventually became friends. We had a great computer science teacher in high school, so we were learning how to run our school’s Unix network back in the days of the pre-commercial Internet (this would be the early 90s). I still remember when we first saw Mosaic (the first graphical web browser), and how surprised we were the first time we saw a URL advertised on TV. Anirvan, how did your reading about and the reality of India coincide when you visited your grandparents? Was that your first trip to India, by the way? Anirvan: I’ve been visiting my extended family in Kolkata (formerly Calcutta) every year or two, all my life, so I’ve always felt pretty connected to the place. I can’t say that I’ve ever had to deal with any substantial culture shock, either in the US or in India. Anirvan, why mysteries? Is solving problems such a deep part of your personality that it is fun for you even when relaxing and reading? Or is reading mysteries when you can turn off your brain and really relax? Anirvan: Definitely the latter. I’m an embarrassingly unsophisticated mystery reader. I miss obvious clues, and have to wait till the conclusion to find out whodunit. Recently, I’ve been reading a lot of mysteries set in Berkeley, California (where I live and work). I’m enjoying seeing how different writers take on the city’s quirks in print. Anirvan, I’ve seen your lists of books read on the BookFinder.com site. What are your favorites, current and past? Is there a particular type of book or author you collect? Anirvan: I read pretty widely (and buy books accordingly). Stuff I’ve been into over the past few years include Isaac Asimov novels, 1960s radical librarian literature, black science fiction, Russian novelists, anti-technology commentary, graphic novels, and punk music history. But to the extent that I can say that I collect anything, I’m probably most into English language fiction from the South Asian diaspora — authors like Salman Rushdie or Arundhati Roy. To indulge my compulsive need for list-making, here are some of my favorite underhyped lit titles from the South Asian diaspora: * “The Shadow Lines” by Amitav Ghosh (India) * “Afternoon Raag” by Amit Chaudhuri (India) * “English, August” by Upamanyu Chatterjee (India) * “Anita and Me” by Meera Syal (UK) * “Once Upon An Elephant” by Ashok Mathur (Canada) * “Junglee Girl” by Ginu Kamani (US) * anything by Ved Mehta (US) Charlie, I’m assuming you are a reader, also? What do you like to read, and what appeals to you about those choices? Charlie: I’m a really big fantasy/sci-fi fan. It probably comes from my interest in ancient and medieval European history. On the other hand, maybe it’s because I’m such a big fantasy fan that I’m so into history. One of those chicken and egg things, I guess. Charlie, have you made up a `books read’ list like Anirvan’s? If so, what are some of those books (and even if you don’t have an official list, what do you like to read)? Which are your favorites, and why? And do you read much about your cultural or ethnic heritage? Charlie: Anirvan, as you may have noted, is very much a list person. He keeps lots of lists in his life, and a reading list is very natural for him. I, on the other hand, am not a list person; I’m far too disorganized to do something like that. Favorite books? Well, let’s see, it’s hard to say, there have been so many…I’ve always enjoyed humor, the books in Douglas Adams’ “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” series are some of my favorites. More recently, I discovered Terry Pratchett and am quickly on my way through reading all of his Discworld novels. “The Name of the Rose” by Umberto Eco — murder, mystery, monks, a Sherlock Holmes-like character, all set in medieval times — what’s not to like? Finally back to the classic fantasy genre, the Thomas Covenant series (“Lord Foul’s Bane”, “The Illearth War”, “The Power That Preserves”) serves up a slight twist to the generic fantasy world. Charlie, Anirvan has written that he had pretty much an upper middle class U.S. upbringing. How about you? My understanding is that you were born in Taiwan, but grew up mostly in the San Francisco Bay area. Did you grow up with mostly Western values and heritage, a mixture of Twaiwanese and Western, or a traditional heritage? Have you visited Taiwan since moving to the U.S.? Charlie: When I think of my upbringing, the best way I have to describe it is to say that I’m a second generation immigrant from Taiwan. I grew up with a mix of values, both American and Taiwanese, with many of my friends around me growing up the same. Charlie, I understand you have many hobbies besides books and your programming. Anirvan has said he’s seen you juggling flaming torches, for instance. How did you get interested in juggling, and how long did it take you and how many different types of objects being juggled to get to the flaming torches level? Any burns along the way??? Also, Charlie, I understand you’ve dabbled in fencing, whittling and woodworking. Are any of these still hobbies? Could you tell us how you got interested in each, and how proficient you became at them? Charlie: Fencing, juggling, woodworking all came about after high school. During college, I decided that I wanted to do something else besides just taking classes every quarter. UC Davis had a great program called the Experimental College, with classes taught by members of the community. I tried fencing because I wanted some sort of exercise to keep me in shape. A good friend of mine also fenced and encouraged me to join. (Also, you can’t tell me there isn’t something cool about the idea of swashbuckling.) After about 3 years of fencing, I still consider myself pretty much a beginner, and I haven’t fenced in several years now. Juggling was just something I’ve always wanted to learn. My roommate and I signed up for juggling classes together. The funny thing about juggling is that once you learn to pass clubs, juggling becomes a very social event as people get together to play together; it’s not just one person off doing tricks alone. I can juggle up to four balls at a time, or three clubs, or three torches, which can be thought of as clubs with flames at the end. No major burns, though I lose knuckle hair every time I try it. As for woodworking, I’ve always been a craft-oriented person. Programming is fulfilling in many ways, but what you create is so ephemeral, I wanted something solid, thus whittling and woodworking. I’m still a rank beginner, but my eventual goal is to make my own furniture. Anirvan, you write beautifully and eloquently. Are you ever intending to try to write a book? Have you had papers or books published? If you did ever decide to write professionally, what would you write about? Anirvan: Thanks. I dabble with an article here and there, but haven’t done much writing otherwise. As with so many things, it’s a matter of not having enough time. I idolize the technology/culture journalism from about 1992 to 1996 — that’s something I wish I could have been involved in (the fact that I was still in high school at the time was something of an impediment). Most mainstream journalists didn’t even know which stories to investigate; others fell into the trap of recycling existing metaphors. But writers like Paulina Borsook, Steve Silberman, Simson Garfinkel, and Howard Rheingold were part of the first wave of smart internet-savvy journalists writing about the social implications of these new technologies, trying to write critically about a medium that was changing by the day. Exciting stuff. There’s a Library of America anthology of American journalism during the Vietnam War; I won’t be terribly surprised if, some decades from now, there’s a similar anthology of journalism from the early networked era. Anirvan and Charlie, aside from reading and working, what do you like to do? Do you enjoy art, traveling, concerts, animals, sports, or??? Anirvan: Nothing out of the ordinary. I try to spend time with friends and family, and attend concerts, plays, and movies. I end up making three or four film festivals a year (the San Francisco Bay Area’s a great place for the arts). Charlie: Aside from the hobbies I mentioned, I enjoy watching movies — comedies and (not surprisingly) period pieces. I boot up the occasional video game, and enjoy hanging out with friends. Anirvan and Charlie, I just finished reading “The Blue Nowhere” by Deaver, and was quite surprised to find so many supposed characteristics I shared with hackers (and I’m not at all a programmer, just a compulsive computer user). Do you “legal” programmers do the same things as hackers? Like eat sweets or drink the strongest caffeine drinks you can find to keep alert for long hours at the computer (that one I share), never drink alcohol or use “anything” that would make you drowsy and unable to function at the computer, have to shave off calluses on your finger tips from keyboarding so many hours (makes me glad I learned to type (pardon, keyboard) with fingernails), wander around at 4:00 a.m. in online chat rooms looking for other computer-compulsive night owls even after your “official” work is over, wear out keyboards at a fantastic rate, be able to “feel” if your computer is being hacked or interfered with in some way from response time either in the drive or monitor, drive noises, etc., or program for 36 hours straight with no sleep? How much of this stuff is correct for you true computer mavens? And hey, is either of you going to admit to ever hacking – in your younger, wilder days, of course? :>) Charlie: Well, as with many such portrayal of hackers, this contains a grain of truth, but some of it is exaggerated for dramatic effect. Many of my friends who are coders do tend to be habitual coffee drinkers, but these days, who isn’t? I don’t think my keyboard wears out any faster than most. Almost all the coders I know, including myself, are night owls. I’ve tried to cut back on the all-nighters (I’m not as young as I used to be, you know.) Hacking in our younger, wilder days? Can I take the fifth? No seriously, because we became system administrators to our high school network, we spent a lot more time keeping our system running than trying to go out and “hack.” Anirvan, you’ve written about feeling “racialized” after 9/11 because of your Indian appearance. Was this a phenomenon that you felt primarily immediately after 9/11, and were there actual occurrences of discrimination against you or any of your Indian friends? Does this feeling (or do these occurrences) still persist today? Would you care to comment on how this felt to a U.S. citizen of Indian descent? Anirvan: My parents are from India, but that’s only one part of who I am. When I talk about feeling “racialized,” I mean that in the days and weeks after 9/11, it was very difficult to think of myself as anything other than someone of the wrong skin color. I’ve encountered explicit in-your-face racism a couple of times, but it tends to be something I can ignore. I’ve rarely felt physically vulnerable. The domestic backlash after 9/11 changed that. My parents called me the morning of 9/11 to let me know what was happening. In the midst of our shock, it was very clear to all of us that there would be a huge backlash. Through websites, newsgroups, and mailing lists, I kept hearing about Americans of Middle Eastern and South Asian heritage getting attacked, people being jeered at, schoolchildren assaulted, businesses threatened. There was a rock thrown through the window of one of my favorite Pakistani lunch spots in San Francisco. A friend’s brother was refused service at a restaurant. Everyone got glares. It wasn’t a good time. I got involved with a group doing hate crime education in the South Asian community; a lot of people were scared to report incidents, for fear of calling further attention to themselves. It’s unfortunate that as thousands were dying after the terrorist attacks, we immediately started turning on our own. If the aftermath of the 1997 Oklahoma City bombing had been anything like that of 9/11, Irish-Americans and Gulf War veterans would have had to fear for their safety after bomber Timothy McVeigh was identified. Just goes to show far we have to go as Americans to overcome our -isms. It takes a long time to shed the stigma of being the “Other”; it may take another fifty years before Indians are as accepted as Italians, Hinduism as accepted as Judaism. Both of you, I have some questions from my personal point of view. I grew up in an era when typing and data entry was primarily a low-paid woman’s job. Now, with computers affecting almost every aspect of our lives, we’ve all been turned into “typists” and for much longer hours than typists worked in the old days (and in many instances, for less pay per hour). I realize it is called “keyboarding” these days, and that modern day keyboarding is, for programmers at least, simply the current method of getting the machine to do what you want it to do. But do you ever get the feeling that you’re chained to that darned keyboard? Do you really get those calluses on your fingertips? Do you both have carpal tunnel syndrome? Do you think the day will soon come when you can program by speaking, rather than keyboarding? And, in that vein, what advances in computer technology do you anticipate in the near future? Charlie: I don’t think it’s so much chained to the keyboard as chained to work in general. The computer is nothing more than a tool to get things done, and the keyboard is just an input tool. I could sit here and talk for hours on end about what I think of the future of technology (and no doubt be mostly wrong), but briefly, I don’t think that voice technology for programmers will be ready anytime soon. There have been many interesting developments in the pursuit of lighter, smaller, flat screens that are easier on the eyes. Once they can get something thin, light, and approaching the resolution of printed text, ebooks will look that much more appealing. You asked about typing calluses. So far, that hasn’t been a problem. My biggest worries are actually carpal tunnel syndrome, and possible damage to my eyes from staring at a monitor for 9+ hours a day. Luckily, nothing has happened so far but it’s always a concern. Thanks to you both, Anirvan and Charlie! #SearchEngines

Don’t you just want to meet the punk who invented the concept of internet ‘feedback’? I mean WHAT WAS HE THINKING WITH? Obviously he wasn’t a vendor–possibly a buyer, but definitely disgruntled. In the real world…’scuse me, did I just say, ‘real world?’ mein gott, I earn my creditor payments from this stupid glass box; maybe I can’t beat it senseless but it’s most definitely real…in the ‘3-D world’ a transaction ends two ways, customer dances the mambo all the way out the door fondling his new acquisition or customer throws a fit or a chair or a book or a unfortunately handy tabby. Then your personal and professional judgment muscles kick in; if the customer has a shred of legitimacy to their grievance you do what you can to make them happy or at least go away, but if their eyes have that glazed over look of a foot soldier for an unseen power listening to the little voices echoing inside his occipital lobe, you politely ask him to leave whilst dialing 911 with your big toe. Alas the e-world isn’t remotely like that. For the most part if a customer is happy you never hear from them again. If they are unhappy you hear from them…a lot. Luckily for the tabby they are usually many miles away. The bad part isn’t dealing with the problem, hey we can take a return or two or three, this is part of the whole enchilada of retail; it’s not being able to ‘see’ the customer. If you could see into their eyes you could possibly tell if the book was truly damaged in transit by gorillas, or are they just pulling your pud because they realized they didn’t want or need or couldn’t afford the book in question and decided to just whack it on the side of the counter before contacting you. You should just be able to take the return back and reimburse the funds. No harm, no foul…no way…with an internet feedback system, a bad trade lingers around like boy cat spray, just when you think you got the stench out, along comes a rainy day that revitalizes the odor to the embarrassment of all present. I count myself a lucky vendor, possibly because I am not as they say a ‘power seller’ [read: successful seller] — only a small percentage of my unhappy customers reach for the feedback button before contacting me, those who actually bother to TELL ME THERE IS A PROBLEM get it fixed and hence have no axe to grind. However there are quite a number of arse-headed people out there who think with their…well…arses. Either they ordered the wrong book or they got something different from what they expected or they didn’t get anything at all, possibly their brain cells are asleep or dead or sedated but they decide to whine about it on a page built just for that purpose. Oh, joy. Now, I know from experience that none of them bother to actually READ THE OTHER FEEDBACKS, cause if they had they would have quickly realized that their ‘problem’ is an aberration and not the end of the end of the bloody world. Riddle me this: if you were to read 900 feedbacks that said basically ‘NO PROBLEMS’ would you jump off the conclusion bridge that inferred I was trying to rip you off for a measly 8 dollars? No, you wouldn’t. You’re not an arsehead. Neither am I. I would never stoop to stealing any amount that piddling. \ When I first got connected, way back when, [I can’t even remember that far back anymore, I think I was born sucking on this keyboard, see the teeth marks?] I took everything everyone said about me or to me very personally. After all, I thought they actually meant it. At the time none of us realized the internet would unleash all those pent up id’s like Rottweilers after a letter carrier. You can’t tell anything about anyone from words on a screen. For all you know I could be a Danish bikini model, but then if I was would I be sitting here talking to you? [and yes, I talk like this in real life] People say and do things out here in the ethersphere that would get them stoned, pilloried and possibly burned at the stake in 3D, up to and including bearing false witness against thy neighbor. In the tangible universe an unfounded accusation of thievery would get you slapped with a libel suit or at the very least an unrecently deceased haddock. But on the net, you would probably have to create a dedicated site that actually had a deleterious impact on some major corporation’s cash receipts before it became cost effective get a law dog to nip your ankles. You can file suit against a feedback poster but who really wants to do that? answer: WE ALL DO, can we afford it? hardly. All we can hope is that we get an overwhelming number of good responses that when glanced at make the offending post look like the actions of a dope fiend. These days I execute swift and decisive action against those who jump the gun: post negative feedback BEFORE contacting me. I retaliate with a nebulous sort of rating that says “doesn’t communicate well” (that confuses the hell out of them) then send them a sickeningly polite email asking why they didn’t contact us the 1st moment they realized there was a problem? If one calmly pretends to be completely confused by their response you can usually get them to belly flop over and offer to retract the feedback (which we know isn’t possible). If anything it’s amusing as hell to play with their little minds and since aside from a response that says “customer was offered a full refund but declined” (you don’t want to say anything too nasty about anyone on your own feedback page no matter how much of a moron they are, it makes you look petty) there isn’t much joy in slinging mudville back and forth with someone you can’t see.

Tom Sawyer is an éminence grise of the Internet bookselling world. He is the creator of the UIEE format that has become the de facto industry standard, the developer of BookMaster, Record Manager and BookMate software — and now, the soon-to-be-released BookWriter. A man with bookselling in his blood (his mother is an antiquarian book dealer), Tom is one of the most knowledgeable, most capable — and most interesting! — people in the business. As one of the co-founders of Interloc, Tom designed and coded the software that made Interloc the first on-line bookselling success story. Later, Tom co-founded Alibris, successfully adapting Interloc’s software to a new business model. Over the years Tom has met and worked with hundreds of booksellers, and yet he has never been formally interviewed. Not even a photo of Tom has ever been published. So fasten your seatbelts, Standard readers! We’re about to give you a breathtaking industry scoop, guaranteed to thrill, inform and entertain. * * * * * It was a complete accident. My mother has been an antiquarian bookseller for 40 years. One day in 1987 I visited my folks and found my mother tearing her hair out trying to keep track of twenty thousand 3×5 cards. She knew I had some experience with computers, so she asked if I could write a program that would help her manage her book records. I said OK, so I created the original BookMaster program, which worked well for her. Then, her friends started asking for copies, which I provided. I later started handing out a LOT of copies and I said “Hmmm, I wonder if I can make a living at this?” I’ve been at it ever since. How did you get involved in on-line bookselling? Again, serendipity. Dick Weatherford had reviewed BookMaster in AB Bookman’s Weekly in 1991 and he liked it. He called me up in June of 1993 and asked if I could create the software for an entire on-line system for book dealers, both front and back ends. I was really flattered he called me. This had been tried before unsuccessfully so I was a little nervous about it, but Dick was great about supporting my ideas. We went back and forth for a while and we came up with a workable design. I recommended Brad Councilman to handle the back-end hardware and network, and he did a super job on a shoestring budget. And amazingly, it all worked! In the five years Interloc existed before reincorporating as Alibris, the three of us only actually met face to face on three occasions. Our relationship was based entirely on trust. It was the greatest experience of my professional life. We’re still very close friends. Did you develop Record Manager for Interloc? Didn’t it also provide UIEE support? Yes, Record Manager was the first program to provide direct UIEE upload capabilities, in support of Interloc. BookMaster created UIEE files, but didn’t directly upload them. I authored all versions of BookMaster, Record Manager, and BookMate. Alibris provided guidance for the BookMate feature set. Were you involved in the creation of ABE or Bibliofind? No, not in the sense I think you mean. Michael Selzer and Rick Pura were some of Interloc’s first customers. They developed their systems independently when the Internet started to take off. I don’t recall having had any personal contact with them, but it was a long time ago and I also did Interloc tech support the first couple of years, so it’s possible we spoke at some point. Are you still involved with Alibris? No, my relationship with Alibris ended in April of last year. I’m still in touch with some of the people involved, and I do own some stock in the company. Many people were disappointed when Alibris elected not to release a BookMate II version. Can you give us any idea of why this happened? I had no direct involvement in that. My understanding is that a BookMate II version was not released because of a business decision to no longer develop client software. What can you tell us about BookWriter, your new bookselling software? Well, BookWriter is actually just one of several programs under development. We’ll also be offering an auction composition and upload program for HomeBase users, as well as some UIEE conversion utilities and other things I’d prefer not to mention just yet. But to answer your question, BookWriter contains the features that booksellers would expect to be there: Hit List, catalog composition tools, rapid data entry, global editing, ISBN lookup, export to several different file formats, multi-destination upload capabilities and lots more. It also provides the ability to relate images to book records and manage them directly, something I feel very strongly about. I think the program will be well received. What’s different about BookWriter as compared to other bookseller software? Okay, there are two things that really set BookWriter apart. The first is that BookWriter will compose auctions and upload them to venues like eBay, Amazon, Yahoo, and Popula. The image management software is part of this. The composed HTML can be used in pretty much any auction venue or web page. I feel that giving booksellers the ability to use their existing book record databases to quickly and easily compose auctions will really give them a huge competitive edge and restore their ability to increase sales through broader, mainstream exposure. But the second thing that sets BookWriter apart, and I believe more importantly, is that BookWriter will be the first user program to be fully 100% UIEE 2.44-compliant. This means the UIEE files can contain not only record text, but images and other objects as well. Images are maintained from within the program and uploaded as part of the UIEE file, not as separate entities. This capability is going to make life a lot easier for everyone as companies adopt the new specification. The upgrade process is already quietly underway. Very interesting, indeed! Will companies like ABE and Alibris adopt the new UIEE format? I can’t speak for them, but we hope so, and frankly I don’t see how they can avoid it, for three reasons: First, UIEE 2.44’s objectives are right in line with venues that serve as intermediaries between sellers and buyers. It will make their activities both simpler and more cost-effective, so I don’t see any practical reason they would choose not to adopt it. Secondly, even though uiee.com has only been live for a couple of weeks, we’ve already been contacted by several listing services and auction companies wanting to become directly UIEE 2.44-compliant. We’ve also received inquiries from software vendors wanting to upgrade their clients. BookWriter may be the first software client program to support UIEE 2.44, but it certainly won’t be the only one. And third, UIEE 2.44 is a solution to problems that aren’t going to go away by themselves. This new standard supports all types of collectibles, not just books, in both retail and auction venues. Won’t upgrading be a major undertaking for companies? Definitely not. The special nature of UIEE is that programs can be created in any environment to assemble and disassemble upload files. Although we’re offering software that will run on most servers, anyone is free to create their own. That’s the point of developing and publishing the new specification. Of course standard UIEE files are supported in every respect. Nothing is lost. In fact, the companies receiving the files have it easy — all they have to do is disassemble the UIEE files, and that’s really simple to do. The burden is really on client software developers to effectively create an environment in which images and text can be managed harmoniously. That takes a bit more doing, but there are many auction programs already doing this well, so there are plenty of examples to draw on. Programmers writing bookselling software are going to have to add a new dimension to their work. What about storefronts, like eBay Stores, Yahoo Stores, zShops, and Popshops? BookWriter can export data in multiple formats, including Excel .CSV format, which is the “standard” used by most SQL-based storefront and retail environments. BookWriter users can send their data wherever they like and be assured it can be read correctly by the systems that receive it. But, most storefront companies have set themselves up such that users must still handle images manually, often on an on-line only basis. This is a very cumbersome way to get things done. For example, in the case of my parents’ online storefront shop at http://www.bdunique.com, I was able to load 600+ records plus images in a single day. However, I still had to add the images manually which was a tedious and time-consuming process requiring some 18 hours of hands-on work. If this system had been UIEE 2.44-compliant, the job would have been done all at once, completely automatically. The same is true for any company offering storefronts. In the broader sense, adopting the UIEE 2.44 specification solves this problem completely for all venues requiring simultaneous image and text management. Images can be bundled with text and HTML and shipped directly in a single UIEE file for import into such venues. How likely is it that storefronts will accept UIEE files? Some of them already do. The widespread adoption of UIEE makes it possible for companies already receiving old-format UIEE files to view a transition to UIEE 2.44 as a relatively easy “upgrade” rather than a fundamental “change” (something companies are loath to do). It is my intention to do my very best to urge companies to adopt it as a standard means of receiving structured records. So far, the response has been positive. Remember, the capability to upload records to a storefront is presently more a function of being able to export records in a compatible format and then use whatever built-in upload capabilities the storefront system provides, rather than being able to upload records directly and programmatically from within an application like BookWriter. There will be a transitional period, no avoiding it. Again, this is why I’m hoping that the adoption of UIEE 2.44 will happen as quickly as possible — it will solve dozens of such problems. The UIEE update is very exciting! I immediately think of standardization of data exchange on all online sales venues. This could have very significant implications for all booksellers, collectibles dealers, auction companies and businesses across the board. Do you think it’s likely to be adopted as you hope? Yes, I do. Again, the only real objection will be the usual resistance to change. There are no practical reasons not to adopt it. And, keep in mind that the UIEE specification may have been something I created, but it is simply intellectual property and TAS Software has given it away. We’ve done this by placing the entire specification on-line at http://www.uiee.com for anyone and everyone to make use of, without fees or obligation. If someone wants something changed or updated, then all they have to do is contact us, we’ll go over it, and if it has merit, we’ll add it to the spec. The only strong request is that anyone making use of the UIEE 2.44 format adhere to it. Proprietary flavors of UIEE are not allowed. That said, we’re just the custodians and we have no direct way to enforce compliance. Are you working alone? No, we’ve got some excellent people helping out and users will be quite satisfied with the level of support we’re providing. Old-time booksellers would recognize some of the people involved. We’re not novices. What are your goals? What are you trying to accomplish? Well, I’d have to say the goal is to be successful making and supporting the tools it takes for booksellers to be successful. It’s not so much a noble goal as a practical one. If you read the UIEE spec, you’ll see language that speaks to the idea that part of the underlying philosophy for creating UIEE in the first place is that people should not have to be software engineers to exchange data with one another or with other computer systems. I feel very strongly about this. There is a LOT of enthusiasm out there for a simpler, more efficient way for users to manage their data. Anyone who’s ever worked through a standard retail or auction venue knows that uploading separate images and then trying to relate them online with separate records is a very cumbersome process, and it doesn’t always work. Yet this has become the norm. UIEE 2.44 completely does away with all that. Will companies see this as a threat rather than a boon? Some may. But I also think that any company offering their dealers the convenience and efficiency of receiving both text and images simultaneously is going to have a huge competitive advantage over companies that don’t. I attribute much of the success of companies like AuctionWatch and Andale to their ability to make life simpler for their users in this respect. We want the same thing for booksellers without the proprietary locks, and this seemed the best way to go about it. Bottom line is, this is a perfectly natural evolution. As time goes on, images are going to become more, not less, important to the sale. I suspect most people who’ve ever auctioned or bid on eBay already know that. I’ve been very gratified by the support we’ve received so far and, as I mentioned, the upgrade process is already underway. If we can return to BookWriter for a moment, you said it provided “multi-destination upload capabilities,” but I’m not sure if that’s a one-touch procedure. Does BookWriter have a one-touch upload feature, i.e., can users put in the parameters and/or requirements of which databases/sites/auctions they want to upload to and either do them all at once or pick and choose which to do when? Or if you can choose to upload only to all book databases you list with at once, or only to auctions, or both at the same time, or???. The intent is to have a one-touch upload capability in place at release time, but this is a feature that is partly dependent upon the listing services to be implemented. Time constraints may prevent all of the desired venues from appearing initially on the distribution list, so I can’t say for certain how comprehensive a list of destinations will be offered in the first release. And of course, I’m behind schedule as usual. Have you already arranged this with any databases or auction services, or storefront services? I don’t want to appear evasive, but I’d prefer to wait until the upload circuits are 100% established to disclose this. As I mentioned, arrangements are being made now. Several services have already requested upload capabilities and I’ve received positive responses from those whom we have contacted directly. Does each auction and storefront service, like Yahoo, Amazon and eBay, have totally different programming and requirements in-house? Or are they pretty similar? They are all completely different. I would venture to say that you would find few, if any, programmatic similarities, even among those who use the same off-the-shelf packages like MySQL and Oracle. Every company codes their programs to meet their specific business needs within the framework of the hardware set up to run the programs. No two systems are precisely the same and every program is different. It’s the standards for exchanging data that ultimately matter most, and a good standard is what’s been missing. You haven’t mentioned accounting and report capabilities in BookWriter — will those features be part of the package? Which and what, if so? The program provides some good reporting capabilities and there is a Reports menu. Users can also export selected data directly in Excel format for loading into spreadsheets. We’re looking at adding Quicken and QuickBooks exports as well. Can you tell us what the purchase price of BookWriter will be? There will be a $124.95 introductory price, which will be available only until December 31, 2002. As I mentioned, we’re still assembling the complete feature set. Some of the add-on capabilities are very powerful and require our purchasing runtime licenses from other companies, so I can’t really quote prices beyond the introductory period at this point. Is there one version only of BookWriter? There will actually be several versions of BookWriter, but they will not be incremental. For example, there will be a version of BookWriter that works directly with HomeBase database files. However, its functionality is not much different than the version we’re preparing to release that works in its own native database format. What about multiple users? Can a user buy BookWriter and use it on more than one computer, or do they need to buy (or be licensed) for the software for each computer it is used on? Can a user copy it onto their laptop, as another example, as well as using it on their desktop? BookWriter will be licensed for use by a single user on a single computer. The license provides for the same user to install the program on several different computers, providing only one at a time is in use. We haven’t yet established a network license policy. Are you going to issue CDs, or will it only be downloaded from your site? The plan right now is to offer the software as a downloadable program and on CD-ROM. BookWriter contains a built-in context-sensitive help system, so no on-line connection is required for help. I’m very pleased with the Help system — I think users will like it. Will there will a printed manual, or online help only? Any reference cards, like days-of-old (I used to love those things!)? A bound, printed manual will be available at nominal cost. A reference card is a good idea, but frankly, I doubt it would be of much use. This is a very easy program to operate and the context-sensitive Help system is really all you need. Like most production software, once you learn the half-dozen things you really need to know to quickly get your work done, you can safely ignore the rest. Re customer service: Phone, email, live chat help, all of these, none of these, or?? E-mail support is provided free of charge. Telephone and on-site technical support will be available, but we’re still working through the details of precisely what support levels we’ll be offering. We have some very good people working with us on this, and we need to plan this carefully to satisfy everyone’s needs. What existing formats can be used to transfer data into BookWriter? Will this be an automatic thing, or are you going to develop it as you go, by working with each format as it comes to you and preserving that developed capability for future uploads of that format? Is this all done on your end, or does the user have to work with you on changing any data fields around, etc.? I assume formats other than UIEE can be imported? And what about exports? Will anything other than UIEE be needed, actually? The short answer to these questions is that BookWriter initially will be able to import and export to and from any UIEE or delimited file. Users will be able to map fields as they so choose. Excel formats will also be supported for uploading to venues currently requiring this type of file. As the adoption of UIEE 2.44 develops, more direct upload circuits will be added. Obviously, we hope all of them will upgrade their file receiving and processing systems for UIEE-2.44 compliance, but I’m not blind to the realities and I’m sure some companies will be slow to adopt. However, I must again stress that BookWriter is merely the first program, not the only program that will be UIEE-2.44 compliant, so I won’t be the only one driving the transition. You talked about images; could you explain a bit more on this? Will BookWriter provide image editing capabilities? The initial release will rely on the user to prepare their images as they prefer before attaching them to records and sequencing for upload. We’re considering offering an Image Editor as an add-on, but no firm decision has been made at this time. For non-programmers like me, will there be any built-in HTML code phrases or help for users (sort of a fill-in-the-blanks in a code sequence type of thing)? BookWriter works on the basis of templates, into which your data is intelligently inserted. The templates can be edited as desired using any standard HTML editor (such as Microsoft FrontPage). We’re considering offering an HTML Editor as an add-on, but as is the case with the other add-ons I’ve mentioned, we’ve made no firm decision yet. Which operating systems can BookWriter be used with? BookWriter runs on all flavors of Microsoft 32-bit Windows operating systems (95, 98, 2000, NT, XP, and ME). There is presently no plan to produce a Mac version. Mac users can use any of several inexpensive Windows O/S emulators to run the software. What about collectors needing software? Any thoughts of providing software specifically geared to that market, just for maintaining info on collections not to be sold? I see and get lots of inquiries on this. There is no “collector-only” version planned at this time, though we may consider creating one. Given the low purchase cost and the scope of capabilities the program provides, I don’t think it would be wise for me to try to second-guess how someone might or might not want to make use of them. A Swiss Army Knife without a screwdriver blade doesn’t cost much less than a knife without one, but it’s a lot less useful. There are probably thousands of people still using BookMaster, Record Manager, and BookMate. Will they have to import their records into BookWriter and will they be able to continue to use their old software? Users of BookMate, Record Manager and BookMaster won’t have to import their records because BookWriter will work directly with existing databases from my older programs. But, BookWriter adds a lot of new information to the old database formats and, naturally, the old software won’t be aware of it. There are cases where this can potentially cause problems. So the short answer is: Yes, users can continue to use their old software, but we recommend migrating to the new format. What about HomeBase users? There is a plan to produce a version of BookWriter that works directly with HomeBase files, if possible. If this is produced, HomeBase users won’t have to import their records either — BookWriter will work directly with their existing HomeBase database file. There are many advantages to this, not the least of which are simplicity and complete freedom of usage. However, ABE has deviated from the field standards that existed previously and there are some incompatibilities to be addressed. This is not a trivial issue. What about other database formats? For users of other book inventory software, BookWriter can import records using any of several file formats including UIEE, comma- or tab-delimited, flat ASCII and others. BookWriter provides field-mapping capabilities to suit individual needs. What do you do when you’re not programming? My wife Niki and I both love animals and enjoy the outdoors. She’s one of the real people who can “talk to the animals.” We have a 50-acre farm in upstate New York, well away from the cities. It is a truly beautiful area. We hope to build a new house, if and when we can afford it. I heard you have a flock of sheep. What’s that all about? Niki is a master handspinner and we have a flock of Black Welsh Mountain Sheep, a very rare breed. They retain many of the wild characteristics of their ancestors. They’re multi-purpose and disease-resistant and they produce good fleece and meat. They’re affectionate and just love to have their ears scratched. We have 47 now, including a few off-breed animals we received as orphans, whom we refer to as “The Office Sheep” because that’s where they spent most of their childhoods — under my desk and in Niki’s lap while we worked at our computers. I’m a guitarist, and I produce my own recordings. For recreation, more than anything in the world I love to fish! Niki and I go way up north into Quebec where there’s no electricity, no phones, no e-mail, and few people. We’ve done it nearly every year since we were married, and I did it nearly every year with my family before that. I have a very good memory, but my mother likes to pull my leg by asking me why I don’t remember my first fishing trip — the reason being that she was pregnant and I hadn’t been born yet. I’m also a NAPWDA certified bloodhound handler and Niki and I have both worked cooperatively with local law enforcement and search and rescue groups trailing missing persons. Not every trail had a happy ending, but our hounds never failed to find their quarry. Although some of them have passed on, they’ll always occupy a special place in my heart. I’m also a certified Smoke Diver for our local volunteer fire department. Although I’m now on the inactive roles, I do sometimes miss the action. During Interloc days, Dick Weatherford used to call daily to chat — and to make sure I was still alive! Thank you so much for this opportunity to interview you, Tom! On the contrary, thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk. I really enjoyed it! If you’re interested in learning more about BookWriter, please contact Tom directly at tsawyer@rochester.rr.com #Software

PopShops, the new fixed-price/shopfront offering from Popula Auctions, will deliver booksellers a new and different customer base in a new and different kind of venue, according to Maria Bustillos, the company’s CEO. The new site is scheduled to launch on May 15. “Even the least tech-savvy Web user can create a PopShop in just a few minutes,” says Bustillos. “The cost is way less than setting up your own website: just $10 per month and 10% commissions on successful sales (you can also prepay a year’s fees, for just $100.) Because Popula encourages links to outside services and to your own websites elsewhere, PopShops is a great adjunct to any existing online strategy for the retail sale of used and rare goods. For someone with an existing database of books it’s especially easy, because the whole file can be uploaded and translated into the PopShops system with very little effort or time.” PopShops offer dealers a permanent Web presence with its own URL and headers, a customizable template including four images, space for a logo and contact information, a Printing Press feature for sending out newsletters and sale announcements to new and existing customers, and other hot new features to be revealed in the final launch. A print and Web advertising campaign is already underway. Popula’s original offering, an offbeat online auction, enjoys a high reputation among auction aficionados, who praise the site’s ease of use, its relaxed and fun atmosphere, and its friendly and responsive customer service. Publications as diverse as Fortune Magazine, Women’s Wear Daily, Long Island Newsday, and Courtney Love’s Hole website have all recommended Popula highly. Having weathered the Internet downturn successfully and maintained its eclectic atmosphere intact, the company has decided that the time is right for expansion. “The Internet is still in its infancy,” continues Bustillos. “Those of us with the patience and foresight and flexibility to take advantage of new developments will be in an excellent position a few years from now. We’ve been planning for this stage for two years, and are very excited to be able to offer PopShops at last.” Bustillos also observes that Popula’s following includes a broad cross-section of discerning younger customers who may not normally shop for rare and out-of-print books, but whose collectors’ addictions to vintage clothing, pop culture artifacts or vinyl LPS make them ideal candidates for bibliomania. Says Bustillos, “A lot of these kids have got the psychological profile for the dread book disease—they just need a small amount of information, a little nudge in the right direction … I know, I sound like a dope peddler! But booksellers who sell on Popula are likely to find buyers they won’t find on other sites.” “Popula’s greatest strength is that we put our dealers first,” adds Oliver Corlett, co-founder and President of the company. “We feel that when customers come to buy from you at Popula, they’re yourcustomers, not Popula’s. We offer you the tools to serve them–but otherwise, we basically stay out of the way. It’s not in our interest to try to control our dealers’ transactions, payment systems or fulfillment options. We encourage you to use our system as a part of a whole sales strategy. We want our dealers to succeed, and we offer them the freedom to do things their own way.” A few FAQs regarding PopShops: How do booksellers upload their inventories to PopShop? In other words, can we upload whole inventories like we do to databases, and you guys convert the formats? Yes. For now, we are converting files in-house from any of the usual suspects (ABE, HomeBase, BookMate, BookTrakker, Access, Excel, etc.) We’ll be adding conversion utilities so that merchants can upload straight from the site. Or is it more like eBay, where either you list them on MisterLister or an independent software vendor’s program once and then have them for future use if they don’t sell? Once your inventory is translated into the PopShops format, you can keep it all on Popula for as long as you subscribe, and re-use data as you need it. Are you encouraging dealers to upload 1,000 or 3,000 or more books, or are you aiming for smaller amounts of wares in each shop? What if a bunch of dealers uploaded thousands of books each–are you equipped technically and server-wise to handle that type of load? We’re aiming to grow a large database, and have built the system to accommodate and scale with that in mind. PopShops is a whole separate “wing” of our system and runs its own software. Is the $10 regardless of how many items are in the shop? For now, yes. It’s an introductory price, and I hope a lot of dealers will take advantage of it. Also, can items other than books be put in PopShops? I sell some antique jewelry and glass, for instance. They’re not in any database, so is there a program where I could enter the specifics to put them in a PopShop? Yes, PopShops is equipped to handle the same categories of merchandise as Popula Auctions. We have a separate Populator upload system for adding inventory. I assume images can be attached to items in PopShops? Yes. PopShops descriptions also accommodate HTML and offsite links, so that users can use their PopShops to do different kinds of cross-merchandising.

From: Michael Tokman Web Site URL: http://www.choosebooks.com What is your purpose in starting a online book database (i.e., to help online booksellers, to get a database that does what you think a book database should do, because it’s a good business to be in, all of the above, none of the above, or ????). All of the above, to say the least. We have often have been struck by how varied the world of book selling is. There probably are as many business models as there are booksellers. We designed a site that fits booksellers’ business styles rather than them having to adapt to a single format. Even our name, ChooseBooks.com, implies choices. Along the same lines, our marketing plan takes advantage of both niche marketing and the full global market place in generating more sales. Is this a long-term commitment on your part?Where do you see yourself and your database in 3 years? 5 years? Creating a “Full Service” multi-dealer bookselling portal is a fairly labor intensive undertaking. One does not begin this for a short-term gain. We are 100% committed to ChooseBooks.com and will be in it for a very long haul. As for the future: The site is filled with sophisticated features to help both Buyers and Sellers. Best of all, all those functional features are very flexible and can be easily expanded and modified to fit rapid changes of e-commerce. However, we want to make sure that everything is working smoothly before we expand. We are opening in four languages – even though technically we could open in a dozen. ChooseAutographs.com for autographs, letters and manuscripts is presently our only companion site. Yet since book dealers have many specialties, we plan for ChooseBooks.com to be a flagship of all our sites and through it open many specialty markets to our booksellers. What lister book database inventory programs do you/will you support? We support every program regardless of computer platform used. Whether Mac or PC, Unix or Linux, we can accommodate it and if a new program is created, we will support it too. A large part of our beta testing is to make sure that uploading works smoothly for all formats. What are your upload procedures? Deletion procedures? Are “wants” listings available? For sale matches? Are any additions/changes planned? Our uploading procedures are simple – either through our web-based system or via FTP. You send us your file(s) and we list or delete books as stated in the file. Or, if you prefer, you can manage your inventory online. We have the ability to create want lists by using every parameter of our advanced search engine. All “wanted” items will be matched against For Sale records in our database. Customers will be notified when their specific want is matched. In addition to a “Want List”, we have added another service – a “Watch List”. Designating a book as “watched” means that you can return to it without repeating the whole search. What customer service (for both sellers and buyers) do you/will you have? We are glad you asked this question. Many people think of Customer Service in regard to resolving problems. We have toll free telephone, fax and e-mail support for answering questions, providing information, solving problems or working through technical issues. But service also covers things like added value of information, convenience and free advice. The following is a very brief glimpse of some of the added value we offer to our sellers. Listing sellers inventory on all of our Foreign Language sites and on our companion ChooseAutograph.com site at no extra cost. Giving extra visibility to our dealers in “Find a Specialist” and “Bookshop Finder for Travelers” areas of ChooseBooks.com . Utilizing the collective power of our sellers in getting extra savings on office and shipping supplies. Offering flexible payment options to fit different budgets and business models. And most importantly we will always listen to suggestions of new features and services. More detailed description of various benefits can be found at: http://www.choosebooks.com/info_newdealer.jsp Buyers shopping at ChooseBooks.com will find books……and a lot more. They will find a wealth of information on books & book collecting. They will find convenient ways to locate dealers. They will find an easy, safe and secure environment in which to shop. In other words, they will find a place that they want to return to again and again. Service is big for us and we cannot emphasize it often enough. We believe that many services given freely are what our dealers and customers want and deserve. Will you/do you have any quality (i.e., descriptions, shipping, and/or customer service) standards for your listers?If so, what will be/are the consequences of violating those standards? We want buyers to have the best shopping experience at ChooseBooks.com . Our statement of ethics is right on the front page. It covers things like descriptions, shipping, returns, etc. We expect that these standards will be followed. They are “normal” for the trade. If there are problems, we will deal with them privately on an individual basis. If problems persist with particular individuals, they will be asked to leave. A similar policy will apply to buyers. We are very easy to reach, so if we receive reports of unethical behavior by a particular buyer, we will promptly investigate these reports and will take appropriate actions on behalf of our sellers. What are your technical arrangements (in non-technical language, please) to ensure reliability of service?Future growth?Additional services? We are lucky to have programming and technical staff as an intimate part of the ChooseBooks.com’s team. Our arrangement affords us long-term, readily available infrastructure and on-site technical expertise. Aside from regular online servers, we have dedicated back-up and stand-by servers for every function of the site. We have a dedicated internet connection with plans in affect to establish redundant access. Our system architecture is easily extendable to accommodate additional features as they become available. For both hardware and software, we have chosen Enterprise Class scalable technology to assure smooth transition in growth. Will you/do you have the capability of taking credit card info for orders? If so, what can you tell us about the safety procedures you have or will have in place to ensure the security of such info? Yes, buyers will be able to safely leave their credit card information. We have taken several steps to ensure the safety of any financial information we accept. It will only be available to book sellers by logging onto our secure Order Processing area with their password. Our web site has a secure server layer (SSL), which encrypts financial information provided by buyers while it is in transit to us. For the limited time this information is hosted on our system, it will be further encrypted using public key infrastructure (PKI) technology. We use Verisign, a third-party company respected for its security, to process our online transactions. A more detailed account of our security is available at the “Security” area of our site. Do you ever plan to process credit card orders through your database (rather than simply passing on the info to the lister) and, if so, will the lister or buyer bear the processing cost, and how long will it take to get payment to the lister? Dealers will have a choice when they sign up. If someone does not have credit card facilities and wants us to process credit cards for them, we will do that. The dealer will pay the cost. We will not “make money” off this–it is purely a service for dealers. If dealers want to process everything on their own, they can certainly do that. We also offer a third option that combines these 2 choices. This is a very important question that is difficult to answer in a few words; a more detailed description of our orders payment processing options can be found at: http://www.choosebooks.com/info_general_17.jsp Do you have any plans for programs associated with your database which would involve anything other than direct contact between seller and buyer? No. For every sale, even if ChooseBooks.com is processing payments, both buyers and sellers will get each others’ contact information. Buyers will know exactly who they are purchasing from and sellers will be able to establish contact with the buyer. The only exception is if a seller specifically instructs us that s/he does NOT want to have any contact with buyers. In those cases, we will become the point of contact for the buyer. Do you have or do you plan to have an “all word search” capability? Yes. We have that already. It’s one of the first things we put into our search engine. What search capabilities does your database have now? What is planned for the future? Aside from having all the usual things, we added several useful search features: Ex-library and/or book club editions will be easily excluded from search results by checking appropriate boxes. Any word can be excluded from search results by entering it into the specific “Word(s) to Exclude” field. Two types of searching are possible, based on logical relation of words within a particular field.While “AND” searching will produce results that have ALL of the words within a particular search field, “OR” search type will result is records that meet at least one of the search criterion (this one is particularly useful if exact spelling of the term is unknown, so multiple spelling variations can be entered in the same field). You can read a detailed explanation of our search capabilities by going to: http://www.choosebooks.com/info_searchtips.jsp On what will you base your listing fees? What fees do you have now or plan to have? Again we offer choices – either Flat Monthly Fee or a Percentage of Sale Fee. Sellers can choose the method that they think will be best for their business. These options are NOT permanent. At the end of every month, if sellers so desire, they will be able to switch from Percentage to Flat Rate. Switching from Flat Rate to Percentage option will be possible at 6 months intervals . 1. Those who select a monthly fee will pay: Number of RecordsMonthly Fee / Month 1 – 1,000 records$15.00 / month 1,001 – 10,000 records$25.00 / month 10,001 – 25,000 records$35.00 / month 25,001 – 50,000 records$50.00 / month 50,001 – 100,000 records$75.00 / month For each additional 25,000 records, add $15.00 / month Those who pay for the full year in advance will get 12 months for the price of 10. 2. If sellers prefer Risk Free, No monthly fees, they have an option of paying 15% of each sale [which includes any credit card processing fees]. For more detailed description of our fees, please visit: http://www.choosebooks.com/info_general_5.jsp. Do you plan to have or now have your database searched by Addall or Bookfinder or any other mega-search site? Yes, as soon as we qualify we plan to participate with mega-search engines. It is a great way to bring buyers to the site. How do you plan to advertise your database (both to draw listers and buyers)? We are fully aware that regardless of how wonderful our site is, sellers will not stay if we do not generate sales. We have spent over a year putting together an aggressive marketing plan. We have a month-by-month progressive exposure planned for electronic, radio and print media. As an brief example, both sellers and buyers will be encouraged to visit ChooseBooks.com through internet book discussion groups, book fairs, book selling periodicals, direct mail and personal contact. In addition, with a separate marketing campaign for ChooseAutographs.com, we expect to create some cross over book sales. We also have several innovative marketing strategies planned for our first year. We expect that some of these will become annual campaigns and others should bring local benefits to our member dealers. It is difficult to talk about targeted marketing without giving away our plan, but we hope that this helps you to know that we have taken this very seriously. It is important to mention that marketing is an important example where we benefit from having technical staff as our partners. A much larger portion of our budget will be devoted to promotion than would have otherwise been possible. What background or experience do you or other people involved with your database have that relates to the online book or online book database business? Ah, finally we get to brag about ourselves. We are fortunate to have a good mix of book and technical people interested in creating ChooseBooks.com. Michael Tokman, president and CEO of the company, has owned and operated A-ha! Books in Ithaca, New York since 1991. Michael started A-ha! Books as a mail order business (using AB Bookman). Quickly outgrowing his living quarters, A-ha! Books evolved to a bricks and mortar shop and subsequently, in 1994, became a bricks, mortar and internet store, which it has been ever since. Kate Lindemann, our marketing consultant, studied”diffusion of innovations” during the 1960’s and did consulting in that area for about 15 years. She has owned and operated Kate’s Books – an on-line book business – for 9 years. Poney Carpenter is our Chief Technology Officer and lead developer. He has been a part of the computer industry, including developing of large-scale client-server systems for use in corporate environments, for over 20 years. Poney and his brother Kendall, our system, database, and network administrator, are the principal technical backbone of ChooseBooks.com .Because of their know-how and experience, we have not had to hire outside programmers or technical staff. Our IT people are on site; they built the system and know it inside and out. Camille Lee (AKA Web Guru) is a trained graphic artist and designer who specializes in web application interfaces. She is responsible for making us “Look Good”. As difficult a task as this may be, she has succeeded. In addition we have a group of native multi-lingual specialists. Michael is fluent in Russian. Silvia González and Doris Perez are our persons for Spanish; Anat Nidar-Levi for French and Claudia Haferkamp for German. Do you or are you planning to have professional management, bookseller management, or???? We have our management team in place and we do not intend to bring in any “professional managers”. Our management style is consultative where several heads are better than one. Over a dozen book sellers kindly offered suggestions and criticisms as we developed and we will always be grateful for more input. ChooseBooks.com is and will be a site by book sellers for book sellers. What markets (geographical and/or demographic) are you aiming at? Our multi-lingual opening demonstrates our commitment to the global book market. Then too, the very structure of the site targets specific groups of book buyers. Our search engine, that can exclude ex-library books and book club editions, will appeal to collectors and gift buyers. Our resource pages and newsletters will to appeal to”those who like to know and love to read”. Our exclusion functions in the search engine should be of particular use to academics, librarians and students. ChooseBooks.com has been reviewed to be sure it is accessible for those with visual or motor impairments. You can navigate the site by keystroke or by mouse and we even offer a link to a free, downloadable talking browser. Most books sites are difficult to use if you have any special vision or motor needs. Creating a highly accessible site should appeal to another group of book lovers. What services/features does your database have that you feel sets you apart and/or will ensure the success of your database? We used the best that already exists in book buying/selling and added some additional services: Individualization. ChooseBooks.com will fit different book selling business models. Global marketplace design. We offer multi-lingual buying and selling. Crossover sales from our companion site. Creating sales with concrete marketing plans. Free Added Value to attract repeat customers. Please tell us anything you’d like about yourself or your database, and thank you for participating. It is wonderful to have an opportunity to describe our site. I really thank IOBA for that. This series of database interviews is a real service to the book community and we appreciate that. As for our site, we would like to encourage those reading this interview to go to http://www.choosebooks.com and evaluate the site for themselves.

URL: http://www.tomfolio.com What is your purpose in starting a online book database (i.e., to help online booksellers, to get a database that does what you think a book database should do, because it’s a good business to be in, all of the above, none of the above, or ????). Over the last two years, the large book databases have increasingly changed their focus from serving book buyers to figuring out ways to make a profit off of book customers. The result has been extra fees for basic services like secure ordering and markups over the bookseller’s price. TomFolio.com was started as a bookseller-owned cooperative that would have the book buyers’ interests at heart. After all, our success as individual booksellers depends upon our ability to provide good books and good service to our buyers. As a cooperative, we don’t have to look to book buyers as a source of revenue. With the large purveyors of used books becoming increasingly “corporate,” the founders of ABookCoOp wanted to make sure that there was a book database site that would be under our control, free of profit motives, and not subject to sale to the highest bidder. Is this a long-term commitment on your part? Where do you see yourself and your database in 3 years? 5 years? We are in this for the long haul. The Internet has changed used bookselling forever and we plan to be on the vanguard of that change. TomFolio.com offers all book buyers the option to use credit cards—booksellers who do not have credit card processing ability use TomFolio.com’s merchant account. TomFolio’s category system also provides a showcase for vintage periodicals and booklets, documents, maps, historical photographs, and other printed ephemera, making them easy to locate by historians, archivists, and collectors. TomFolio.com requires booksellers to abide by a code of ethics and will remove members who don’t meet high customer service standards. TomFolio.com, as a cooperative, offers booksellers the option of shaping the growth and development of the database by participating on the Board of Directors, one of many active committees, or as members of the owner’s mailing list. In the next three to five years, TomFolio will be a strong player in the used bookselling field and since we are owned and operated by booksellers, we will be on the cutting edge of new services and will push other databases to maintain a customer focus. What lister book database inventory programs do you/will you support? We will work with any member or subscriber to translate their data into the TomFolio.com database. All the major inventory programs are currently in use along with custom-developed systems. What are your upload procedures? Deletion procedures? Are “wants” listings available? For sale matches? Are any additions/changes planned? Uploading books to TomFolio.com is a breeze. Most members use a drag-and-drop FTP to upload changes to the database. Other FTP methods are also available. Adds and deletes are handled the same way. At present, want matches are not available but they are currently under consideration. What customer service (for both sellers and buyers) do you/will you have? Most customer service is by email. Owners can post questions to the owner’s mailing list and the “Contact Us” page on the site goes to a mail list that is answered as long as people are up. The answers are provided either by the webmaster or a member of the coop who is an expert in that area. Our customer service is fast, informative, and given by the experts, not telephone support without real knowledge of the system. Will you/do you have any quality (i.e., descriptions, shipping, and/or customer service) standards for your listers?If so, what will be/are the consequences of violating those standards? Independent booksellers may join TomFolio.com either as a subscriber (a lister) or as a shareholder (owner and lister). Listers in both groups must abide by a code of ethics that requires good book descriptions and a money-back guarantee on the part of the bookseller. The booksellers must provide good customer service with the following book buyer protections: The bookseller guarantees delivery (no shipping at the customer’s own risk). The bookseller agrees to take returns for any reason within a reasonable period. If booksellers fail to meet the standards, they can be removed from the database. In the small handful of cases where this has been a problem, a call from a member of the Board of Directors is usually enough to resolve the issue. The Board takes customer service seriously and responds to every complaint. The Code of Ethics may be viewed at http://www.tomfolio.com/TomFolio/ethics.asp What are your technical arrangements (in non-technical language, please) to ensure reliability of service?Future growth?Additional services? The TomFolio.com system has been developed using industry-standard software and powerful hardware. It is designed for scalability and can grow comfortably. When BookFinder searches began to consume too many resources, a separate server was set up to handle that service. The dedicated server ensures very fast responses to BookFinder searches and is an example of TomFolio’s commitment to excellent service and fast searches. Will you/do you have the capability of taking credit card info for orders?If so, what can you tell us about the safety procedures you have or will have in place to ensure the security of such info? TomFolio.com was designed from the beginning to take credit cards—in fact, in order to provide high-quality customer service, all booksellers must take credit cards either through their own merchant accounts or TomFolio.com’s. The credit card processing takes place on a secure server and credit card numbers are stored online for a short period. Do you ever plan to process credit card orders through your database (rather than simply passing on the info to the lister) and, if so, will the lister or buyer bear the processing cost, and how long will it take to get payment to the lister? Currently TomFolio.com booksellers can use either TomFolio.com’s merchant account to process Visa, MasterCard, and American Express orders or their own credit card processing service. Booksellers who use TomFolio.com’s merchant account pay the cost of the transaction, currently 7.5% of the total charge. For most booksellers, this is much less expensive than acquiring their own merchant account. Many TomFolians direct credit card orders from other databases to TomFolio.com so that the customer can use the secure credit card server. The booksellers can then choose to use TomFolio.com’s processing services or their own. In either case, the customer does not pay extra for use of a secure server. Every book on TomFolio.com has a unique URL so that dealers can direct their customer right to the book on the TomFolio.com website. Payments are made to booksellers twice per month. Do you have any plans for programs associated with your database which would involve anything other than direct contact between seller and buyer? TomFolio.com is designed to bring booksellers and book buyers together. We are constantly working to make the book buyer’s experience more like a bookstore not the other way around. Do you have or do you plan to have an “all word search” capability? At present, TomFolio.com does not have a full text search feature, although this feature may be added in the future. In lieu of that, TomFolio supports both searches on categories and on keywords. What search capabilities does your database have now? What is planned for the future? TomFolio.com offers full text searches on the following fields: Author, Title, and Publisher, and Keywords. Searchers can specify first editions, signed copies, price, new adds, price range, and can request books sorted by Date Added, Price, or Bookseller. Books can also be searched within a category, such as Fiction: Mystery or History: Canada and No. America. On what will you base your listing fees? What fees do you have now or plan to have? TomFolio.com offers independent booksellers the option of becoming a shareholder in the Co-operative. The current cost of a share is $500, which may be paid in $50 monthly increments. Shareholders have voting privileges and can participate in discussions on the owner’s list. Booksellers are not required to become shareholders to list books & ephemera on the site, however. Everyone who lists on TomFolio.com pays a monthly fee based on the number of books they have listed. The current fee schedule can be found at http://www.tomfolio.com/TomFolio/stockoffer.asp. Do you plan to have or now have your database searched by Addall or Bookfinder or any other mega-search site? TomFolio.com is currently searched by BookFinder. How do you plan to advertise your database (both to draw listers and buyers)? TomFolio.com spends a considerable portion of its income on advertising. We currently have ads running in the New York Times Review of Books, Firsts, and Bookseller Monthly. We also sponsor links on GoTo.com (Overture.com). TomFolio.com recently hired a professional marketing firm to handle the organization’s media campaign. We also use guerrilla marketing techniques, with bookmarks, t-shirts, brochures, and a campaign to add links to the site on the Internet. Since TomFolio.com is owned by booksellers, we promote the site far more than the members of competing sites. What background or experience do you or other people involved with your database have that relates to the online book or online book database business? TomFolio.com is designed, owned, and operated by booksellers. Do you or are you planning to have professional management, bookseller management, or???? TomFolio.com is managed by professional booksellers through a Board of Directors elected by the owners. What markets (geographical and/or demographic) are you aiming at? At present, most of our shareholders and subscribers are in the US, but we have subscribers in eight countries on four continents. TomFolio.com has wide appeal for the general used and OP book market, we are also targeting book collectors, archivists, and libraries, and collectors of ephemera such as vintage and historical periodicals, pamphlets, maps, photographs, postcards, illustrations and illustrators, autographs, trade cards, business paper, brochures, etc. What services/features does your database have that you feel sets you apart and/or will ensure the success of your database? TomFolio.com has four distinguishing characteristics: TomFolio.com’s dealers guarantee customer satisfaction or their money back. TomFolio.com has a pioneering category search that enables book buyers to browse our virtual shelves. TomFolio.com is owned and operated by booksellers who are committed to an excellent customer service experience. TomFolio.com is establishing a foothold in niche markets for collectible books and ephemera by offering the ability to categorize and showcase these items. Please tell us anything you’d like about yourself and/or your database, and thank you for participating. I think we covered it pretty well already. Thank you for providing this valuable service.

Manley: As of mid-March, we no longer mark-up the books of our U.S. and Canadian booksellers. We also reduced the mark-up on all other books. This April, we started displaying seller names and reliability ratings with book listings on our Web site, and enabled potential customers to ask sellers questions about their books. Sellers also started to ship books directly to the customer. These changes are great for our booksellers and book sales have skyrocketed as a result. We also announced a suite of optional tools that we’re developing for our sellers. One tool will enable you to easily list books on multiple Web sites. Another will help you to purchase and set prices for books based on current market data. These tools will be valuable if you list on multiple sites and want to keep your prices competitive. Have the changes that you recently announced been in the pipeline for some time? What caused you to rethink your approach? Manley: We decided to stop marking up books and enable you to ship directly to customers because the market changed. Most of these changes occurred following the launch of Half.com followed by Amazon.com Marketplace in March of last year. Along with Half.com, Amazon brought a flood of inventory onto the market, and as a result, prices have dropped across the board. We have been planning the change since last October. Do sellers have to “churn” their inventory to get display preference on Alibris? If so, will you increase your technical support and capacity? Weatherford: Alibris displays books according to seller reliability, not according to how recently a book was uploaded, so sellers who “churn” inventory do not receive a display preference. I assume the $0.05 price reductions in booksellers’ listings are a sales tactic to get listings noticed. Does Alibris intend to continue with this expense, or is this a temporary measure? Manley: It is a tactic to sell more books. So as long as it works, we’ll pay for it. Does Alibris intend to continue to be searched by the mega-site search engines? Manley: The management of traffic from search engines is more of a continually evolving art than an exact science. Fortunately we have some terrific artists who continue to ply their trade to the benefit of our booksellers. (Editor’s Note : These mega-site search services actually do the choosing of which databases they will search, and so far as we know, there is no preference given to any database based on whether or not a database advertises with them—it is a level playing field.) If Alibris experiences an influx of new booksellers, will sales keep up or will booksellers all simply sell less? Manley: We are committed to growing the market – meaning that we work to attract both new booksellers and new customers. We understand the balance between growing listings and growing demand for books, which is why we continue to invest in building a brand, commercial partnerships, technology, and specialized logistics needed to grow the used and OP book market. We used to be a listing service that charged you money to list books, but not enough money to attract new customers. Even four years ago, we could see that this approach would not grow the market and in some cases would make it much worse. We decided that if we were serious about building a true partnership with our booksellers, it meant that we could only get paid if our sellers do. Alibris is only one part of the market however. At the moment much more inventory than customers are coming online. The result is that book prices continue to fall. Most booksellers are only vaguely aware of this and are shocked to learn how far prices for most of their books have fallen. That’s why we’re launching a service to help sellers set their prices to the current market price. Despite the number of listings there are on Alibris or elsewhere, appropriately priced books will always sell. Will Alibris continue to advertise? Weatherford: Remember, we only get paid when we sell your books, so we have a great incentive to advertise and increase your sales. In addition to advertising, we also work closely with more than a dozen business partners to make our sellers’ books available in places like Indigo.Chapters.ca (Canada’s largest bookseller), through Books-A-Million stores or via Ingram’s iPage, which is used by thousands of independent booksellers. Your books can be ordered by Barnes and Noble or by Kinokunea, Japan’s largest retailer. We also have the OP trade’s only library field sales team which works closely with thousands of the world’s leading libraries. How will Alibris “police” quality of descriptions and book condition now that it won’t be inspecting these books? Will you guarantee quality and accuracy to buyers? Weatherford: We respect the professionalism and judgment of our member booksellers. When a seller ships directly to a customer, the customer will be the judge – and if they don’t like it, Alibris will accept the return. We will continue to inspect books shipped to libraries and retailers through our distribution center. So we will continue to guarantee the quality of your books and the accuracy of your descriptions – and customers will be the final judges. Will you develop a customer feedback program and, if so, will sellers alone be given feedback or will there be provisions for feedback on buyers? Manley: The initial feedback will be 1 to 5 stars that reflect your fill rate, not customer comments. We have no plans to enable our booksellers to comment on our customers. Alibris requires that titles entered using Alibris Inventory Manager be listed with Alibris exclusively for 12 months. Do you have any plans to drop this requirement? Will BookMate software remain available? Manley: Alibris Inventory Manager is a terrific tool and it is about to become much better. In a version to be released in the near future, it will be both free and non-exclusive. It uses only your browser, so there is no software to install or maintain and if your files get corrupted or lost, you just download a new copy of your files from our server. We have booksellers who have cataloged more than 1,000 books per day and created high-quality records with Alibris Inventory Manager. When we re-launch Inventory Manager it will be backed by the finest commercial catalog in bookselling. The odds that you find a complete record of your book–with or without an ISBN–will be very high. We do take upload files via BookMate, HomeBase, and various other software applications, and very likely always will. However, we no longer offer technical support for our BookMate product and will not be releasing any further versions. What shipping options will customers have and how will you reimburse sellers for their shipping costs? On low-end books it seems that booksellers may refuse many sales as there won’t be enough profit to absorb the additional mailing costs, so they’ll cancel the order and run afoul of the feedback of orders filled. Weatherford : Customers within the U.S. will have the choice of standard shipping and expedited shipping. The solution for standard shipping is USPS Media Mail, for which we reimburse sellers $2.25 per book (which is above the USPS cost of $1.78 for a two-pound package). We understand that a handful of packages may weigh more and therefore cost more, however, most will weigh less and cost less. We analyzed all the books sold by our booksellers and determined that the average book weighs 12 ounces and over 75% weighed under 1 pound and eight ounces. Our solution for expedited shipping is USPS Priority Mail or UPS Ground, and we’ll reimburse sellers $4.35 per book which is above the USPS cost of $3.95 for shipping a two-pound book. U.S. sellers shipping to Canadian customers will ship via USPS Air Letter Post, which costs U.S.$5.00 for a 1.5-pound package, and we’ll reimburse $6.35. Canadian sellers shipping to U.S. customers will ship via CanadaPost Small Packets USA and will be reimbursed US$5.50 for a package that on average costs just over C$7.40 or about US$4.66 for a one to two pound package. The reason booksellers in our network receive so many orders is because we have created one of the best shopping experiences for hard-to-find books online. Customers want a simple shopping experience and as it relates to shipping, customers want a broad variety of options at competitive prices. In the event that a customer orders a multi-volume set or an extremely large volume, the seller can request additional shipping from the customer using the ‘Report an Issue’ link on the Seller Hub. Will ISBN numbers be required for listings on Alibris after these changes become effective? If so, what happens with older books having no ISBN numbers? Or ephemera? Manley: ISBN numbers are helpful because they enable us to merchandise books more effectively and to distribute them more widely. But in fact only books published during the past 30 years have ISBNs — so they are not required on Alibris. Does Alibris intend to continue to maintain inventory of its own? Will you continue to catalog and warehouse books for other booksellers? Weatherford: We do maintain our own inventory, but we have decided to limit our consignment program to the booksellers currently consigning with us. What is Alibris’ viewpoint on sales tax liability? Does it lie with the bookseller or with Alibris? Will Alibris collect sales tax on same-state shipments and either pay the tax for the bookseller or remit it to the bookseller? Manley: We don’t give tax advice, but the key distinction is whether we buy your book from you or sell your book for you. When Alibris buys a book from you, we receive it into our distribution center. Title to the book passes from you to us before we pass title to the end customer. Because of this, we assume liability for paying sales tax because we, not you, sell the book to the end customer. When we sell your book for you under our new approach and you ship it directly to the customer, we never take title. We arrange for you to ship the book, so you have liability for sales tax – just as you would if you sold the book on Half.com or Amazon.com’s Marketplace. Like Amazon and Half, we do not try to collect state, local, and city sales taxes for every worldwide combination of buyers and sellers on our system. As a practical matter, this is a very small problem. If 5% of your Alibris sales are within your state and your sales tax rate is 8%, then the problem of state sales tax amounts to less than one-half of one percent of your sales. (Editor’s Note : If an issue of sales tax arises on the same-state sale of a very expensive book, contact your Alibris dealer representative about it immediately to see if there is a workable solution.) Alibris absorbs the cost of a returned book if the book is priced under $100, but forces individual booksellers to absorb the cost of returns that are higher than this. Why is this fair, since Alibris allows returns for any reason and the bookseller has no control over the situation? Weatherford: None of us likes returns, but in the overall scheme of things, this too is a very small problem. Many customers are reluctant to purchase items online, sight unseen, so to encourage sales, we guarantee that a customer will like his or her book or we will refund their money. This guarantee helps reluctant customers get over their concerns and it grows sales for everybody. It works and most sellers do the same thing if they have stores. Thankfully, almost nobody abuses this policy, (although I do remember one customer whose reason for returning a book was that “it was boring”!) Generally it is easier and cheaper for us to just resell returned books than to deal with returning them to the original seller. And in the case of expensive books, experienced sellers factor in the small risk of a return when they price the book. We return high-value books to sellers not only because we do not want to absorb the cost of the book, but because we often lack the expertise to describe specialized books appropriately. Has Alibris considered paying for the cost of insurance for books over $100 since booksellers are now liable for lost shipments? Manley: Alibris has shipped hundreds of thousands of books – and the percentage that is lost by USPS or UPS is very, very small. Given the shipping reimbursements we provide, sellers will come out ahead. (Editor’s Note : If the issue of insurance arises on the sale of a very expensive book, contact your Alibris dealer representative immediately to see if there is a workable solution. What does the future hold? Will you get big and lower your standards, or will you take Internet bookselling in an entirely different direction? Manley: The question is not what will happen to Alibris, but what will happen to all of us as the Internet continues to reshape bookselling. It is naturally tempting to assume that the future will be like the past, but with the Internet, this assumption is often wrong. At first the Internet was lovely – what was not to like? Online bookselling made books easier to find and it brought in new orders. The future looked great, and for specialized booksellers it still does. But the climate is changing very quickly and you can see it in prices. Most professional booksellers who compare their prices with those on Amazon or Half are shocked. Then they compare prices a month later and are terrified. How can prices drop 15-20% month after month? These sellers may feel betrayed or may want to find a scapegoat, but the world has changed around us all. Successful booksellers will use technology to do much more with much less. That is why we are developing essential tools. Our pricing tools will help booksellers buy and price more effectively given current market conditions, and our selling tools will enable you to easily list and manage your inventory on many Web sites. But Alibris is the weatherman – we are not the weather. Alibris will not decide which booksellers succeed and which do not. The people who do that are our customers – and they are the ones we should all be very focused on. Interview by Shirley Bryant.

From: Brent James Interview submitted to ABE by Barbara Lightner A list of questions covering many aspects of the changes at ABE was submitted, including asking for written confirmations of many verbal assurances and commitments given by ABE representatives during their meetings with booksellers on their U.K. tour. As you’ll see below, none of these commitments made by ABE agents are confirmed or addressed in this response from Mr. James. We show the response from Mr. James first, and then the original list of interview questions submitted to him. We will continue working with ABE to try to get you answers by the time of the summer issue of this newsletter, as that will be the last issue in 2002 containing database interviews. Shirley Bryant, Editor RESPONSE FROM BRENT JAMES AT ABE: Before I begin, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to discuss Abebooks in the Standard. As a probing reporter, you have asked insightful and in-depth questions. As many of your questions are at the heart of several hot issues that we have dealt with and are still working through, I cannot, unfortunately, respond to the majority of your questions just yet. We recently launched two new international websites (abebooks.de and abebooks.fr), tested them in the European market and monitored their progress to evaluate their strengths and weaknesses. We are now moving towards applying the results of this testing to these sites as well as our English web sites (abebooks.com, abelibrary.com and the upcoming abebooks.co.uk). We learned a great deal from working through this testing process and received plenty of feedback from our booksellers. At this point, we are still developing and fine tuning our approach, and are not quite yet ready to make public the details of our future plans. Please be assured that the issues you have identified in your questions coincide with the issues we are currently working for our new web site model. Rather than disclosing partial details of our plans, I would prefer to discuss these questions with you at a later date when our plans are further along and I am able to provide you with the full details. By doing this, I hope to avoid some of the confusion that could result from premature discussion. I would be happy to speak with you again, through the summer, to educate your members (and ours!) about our upcoming changes. Our Public Relations department can assist you in organizing a similar initiative in a couple of months. 1) First, let me thank you for making possible the special program for IOBA members to search member books only, through ABE. We’ll get to that in more detail later. For now, could you tell us the three most important points you would make to booksellers about ABE? Short answer, please. We work hard to provide the high level of service our booksellers have come to expect from Abebooks. We have worked very diligently to sell as many of our members books as possible while, at the same time, facilitating not only buyer communication but also assisting buyers to purchase directly from our booksellers. We have never competed with our booksellers from an inventory of our own; we are in the service business, focused on helping booksellers make the most sales possible. The second point I would like to make is that change is an inevitable part of business. The Internet market for used, rare, out-of-print and antiquarian books has undergone dramatic change in a very short time. In this dynamic marketplace, companies who embrace change will thrive as they adapt to customer/marketplace needs. By listening to the needs of booksellers and book buyers, we are preparing to meet future challenges. Abebooks has always lent an ear to its booksellers. Listening to booksellers is very important for our success. Our Advisory Group has, and continues to play an important role in representing booksellers interests and in helping us make decisions that affect our booksellers. We listen closely not only to our Advisory Group but to other member booksellers, discuss all feedback and work to incorporate suggestions wherever possible before we make a final decision. We are working to improve how we communicate with our bookseller community, so they are informed about how changes in our business will affect changes in their own. Most importantly, we know we will succeed only if our booksellers sell books on our web sites. 2) What are the three most important points you would make to book buyers about ABE? Short answer, please. There really is only one message I would like to make to book buyers: we are committed to providing buyers with a large selection of used, rare, out-of-print and antiquarian books. We are committed to making each customer s visit to our web sites a pleasurable experience and we will continually improve all areas of our web sites. 3) Advertising Abebooks is committed to increasing its profile in the consumer market in a number of ways, one of which is advertising. We are always working to learn more about our buyers and choose the most appropriate methods of promotion based on this understanding. Currently, we are advertising in a number of print publications in the U.S., Canada and in Europe. We are currently co-sponsoring Minnesota Public Radio’s The Writer’s Almanac hosted by Garrison Keillor, which reaches approximately 2 million listeners every day on over 300 radio stations across the United States. We also attend several major trade shows each year and enjoy sponsoring book-related events. Abebooks works closely with the press and receives regular coverage in print, online and broadcast media. Information about Abebooks media coverage, press releases and corporate information is available through http://www.abemedia.com or our monthly bookseller newsletter, the Abebooks Update, available through our Members Menu. 4) IOBA Search Program Once we received the list of IOBA dealers who were listed on Abebooks, the entire process took between 2 to 3 days to put into production on both the abebooks web site and the IOBA web site. First, we set-up an IOBA searchable group for our own web site, and then provided IOBA with a piece of code to place on their web site. This allowed the organization to have its own search box on the web site, which it may not have been able to do otherwise. We have also provided this service for other associations, as listed in the Advanced Search page Bookstores option. This type of service is evaluated on an individual basis, but generally non-profit bookseller organizations are accepted.

When the announcement of the formation of http://www.BiblioDirect.com was made, Bibliophile Books,.Inc. vowed it would be a site with a difference. It is making good on that promise. BiblioDirect.com began with a new philosophy of only accepting dealers with at least a basic knowledge of the book trade and requiring all dealers to accept some form of easy payment. The overall approach for the site was developed by booksellers (Lynn DeWeese-Parkinson and Roger and Jan O’Connor) and then the website design was developed by professionals with expertise in designing and implementing a site for book buyers. Bibliophile Books, Inc., the corporate name of the site, is dedicated to the concept of “quality books from quality dealers.” Much of what the buyer sees on the site is totally new to the used and out-of-print book trade. Probably the biggest difference is how a particular book’s information is displayed to the user. No longer will the potential buyer be presented with a book’s information in a long string of information, but the information is neatly broken down into categories and, as such, is easier to read. There is no denying that presenting the information in this easier-to-use format caused headaches for the programmers because of the wide variety of database formats used by book sellers. However, the overall appearance of the material should be of great help to the buyer. On BiblioDirect, a dealer’s information is easily accessed. All dealers who have their own website will see that their URL is prominently linked with their information. It is also very easy for a potential buyer to inquire about a book. By clicking on “Inquire about this book,” an e-mail form pops up and the inquiry can be made with copies going both to the consumer and the seller. Furthermore, a buyer can safely enter credit card information for the purchase of books. When in their shopping cart, buyers can still elect not to order a book or can just leave a book in their shopping cart for later purchase. If a book in someone’s shopping cart is sold to someone else and removed from the database by the dealer, that book will automatically be marked as previously sold in the buyer’s shopping cart. Book sellers will only have access to a customer’s credit card information when they process the order. Once the seller has marked the order completed, the customer’s credit card information is no longer available to the seller. Both the basic search and the advanced search will continue to be refined. A new program that will improve the searches immeasurably is not yet available to the public; however, the BiblioDirect.com programmers will be among the first to avail themselves of this new technology which is coming any day. Our programmers are on the cutting edge of all current technological advances that will continue to make the site bigger and better. Bibliophile Books, Inc. also promised an advertising campaign. It has already started with some on-line advertising on the major search engines, a banner ad on the Book Hunter Press site, and ads in the programs of various major book fairs. In addition, there will be ads in scholarly publications (both print and on-line) and in the more widely read book-related publications. BiblioDirect.com will continue to be refined and improved in the days and months ahead. We now vow never to become complacent, but continue to be aggressive for the dealers who elect to list their books on our site. We want to thank the dealers who placed their confidence in us when the site was still in the planning stages, and we promise to continue to earn that trust. For dealers who want to consider joining the BiblioDirect community, dealer information and a dealer application is available at http://www.BiblioDirect.com.

From: LEO HARRISON URL: http://www.biblion.com What is your purpose in starting a online book database (i.e., to help online booksellers, to get a database that does what you think a book database should do, because it’s a good business to be in, all of the above, none of the above, or ????). Biblion.com is a natural extension of our shop in London’s Mayfair, where some 100 dealers display their stock. When our site was first launched in April 2000, we wanted to offer booksellers who were unable to display books within our premises the opportunity of participating in the Biblion project. Is this a long-term commitment on your part? Where do you see yourself and your database in 3 years? 5 years? Yes, our commitment is for the long term. We wish to grow steadily and constantly strive to improve the service we provide our participating dealers and their customers. In these uncertain times of mergers and takeovers, we remain fiercely independent and have no intention of selling our clients to the highest bidder. What lister book database inventory programs do you/will you support? We can accept files from any bookseller’s database that can export files in delimited text or UIEE format. What are your upload procedures? Deletion procedures? Are “wants” listings available? For sale matches? Are any additions/changes planned? Our unique upload engine allows dealers to map their own field settings against Biblion’s own field structure. In this way, dealers should not have to modify their databases and once set, a dealer’s field arrangement is stored on our server allowing for very simple uploading of stock. However, we are always happy to accept files sent as email attachments, should the dealer prefer. Books can be deleted in batches via our upload engine or individually through our online form. We require dealers to update their inventories on a regular basis. Customers can register as many “wants” on our system as they require. They are required to log in to do so. They can choose to be informed of their want status daily, weekly, or monthly and all their wants are held on a page from which quick searches can be conducted. This can save a considerable amount of time for those customers who have permanent wants and wish to run regular searches for them. No “For Sale Matches” as yet, but this is planned. What customer service (for both sellers and buyers) do you/will you have? We are always delighted to help sellers and buyers in any way we can. We provide support via telephone and email during UK office hours: Mon – Fri, 10am to 6pm. Will you/do you have any quality (i.e., descriptions, shipping, and/or customer service) standards for your listers? If so, what will be/are the consequences of violating those standards? All sellers are obliged to agree to our terms of trading prior to signing up with us. Sellers are required to keep up to date inventories and to respond to orders and enquiries promptly. Shipping tables (based on destination, weight and speed of service) are filled in by our sellers and provide customers with a good guide as to how much delivery will add to their bill. Customers are provided with seller’s contact details, should they require more precise quotes. We are more than happy to mediate in any disputes arising between sellers and buyers, but serious breaches in our conditions of trading will result in the seller’s immediate exclusion from the database. What are your technical arrangements (in non-technical language, please) to ensure reliability of service? Future growth? Additional services? We have a good technical team dedicated to the maintenance and improvement of the site. Our database is designed to deal with an increasing number of books and customers. We encourage the reporting of bugs and other problems and always do our best to provide solutions as quickly as possible. Our dealers already receive discounts on packaging and book protection materials, as well as the services of an excellent bookbindery. We will be adding new products and services over the coming months. Will you/do you have the capability of taking credit card info for orders?If so, what can you tell us about the safety procedures you have or will have in place to ensure the security of such info? Orders are placed through our secure server. Dealers receive half the card details by email, but have to log in to collect the other half. The email information is not stored anywhere on our server. We believe this to be far safer than sending payment information via two or three emails and also means that hackers will have no joy with the information stored on our server, should they be clever enough to get through our firewall. Do you ever plan to process credit card orders through your database (rather than simply passing on the info to the lister) and, if so, will the lister or buyer bear the processing cost, and how long will it take to get payment to the lister? No plans at present, but a few dealers have asked us to look into this. Do you have any plans for programs associated with your database which would involve anything other than direct contact between seller and buyer? No. Do you have or do you plan to have an “all word search” capability? This will be considered when the database is next upgraded. What search capabilities does your database have now? What is planned for the future? Our advanced search allows searches for: Author Title Publisher Keyword Published Year (from/to) Price (from/to) Signed Books First Edition Books Currency Displayed Searches can also be ordered by author name, title and price (either ascending or descending) On what will you base your listing fees? What fees do you have now or plan to have? Biblion is the only site offering its dealers a choice of either commission or subscription fees. If they chose, dealers can switch from one system to the other on the first day of the month, providing we receive a few days notice. This allows sellers to make the most economical choice according to how well their sales are going. Fee schedule: Subscription 1 – 999 items listed – £17.62 per month or £176.20 per year 1000+ items listed – £29.37 per month or £293.75 per year Commission 11.75% on items actually sold via Biblion (i.e., sales, not orders) All of the above charges include Value Added Tax at 17.5% Do you plan to have or now have your database searched by Addall or Bookfinder or any other mega-search site? Biblion.com is searched by both AddAll and Bookfinder. How do you plan to advertise your database (both to draw listers and buyers)? We advertise in most of the major trade publications in the US and UK. Currently we are investing in search engine promotion via a specialist company. Biblion.com, of course, benefits from all of the widespread display advertising promoting the Mayfair shop and is brought to the prominent attention of the many visitors our shop receives. No big budget extravaganzas, but the larger we grow the more money we will spend on promotion. What background or experience do you or other people involved with your database have that relates to the online book or online book database business? I have been a bookseller for many years and opened the Biblion shop after much discussion with the trade and my customers. My colleague, Sebastian Gray, runs his own I.T. company (ItLab), so we feel that we launched Biblion.com with a good mix of trade experience and technical know-how. However, we are ever conscious of suggestions and comments received from both sellers and buyers and realize that continued improvement is vital to our long-term success. Do you or are you planning to have professional management, bookseller management, or???? No plans What markets (geographical and/or demographic) are you aiming at? Biblion.com initially concentrated on the UK market. However, the internet is global and we soon found dealers from all corners of the world wishing to list their stock with us. The buyers who visit our site are also truly international. What services/features does your database have that you feel sets you apart and/or will ensure the success of your database? Our unique fee schedule (commission or subscription) allows our dealers to get the best value for money according to their circumstances. Our unique upload engine enables our dealers to map their own databases with our own and allow for very simple uploading of stock. Our simple Quick Buy ordering process enables customers to purchase the books they want with the minimum of fuss and safe in the knowledge that their card details will be sent securely. Time saving quick searches of registered wants. We always do our very best to attend to enquiries and problems. Overall, our commitment to Biblion.com is passionate and this provides us with enough enthusiasm and dedication to ensure our longevity. Also, I think the great majority of our customers quite like us! Please tell us anything you’d like about yourself and/or your database, and thank you for participating. Biblion Mayfair: our shop was opened in April 1999. Biblion.com was launched in April 2000. Biblion.com currently has about 500 registered dealers (this figure is growing daily) and over 2.5 million books listed.

Glendale, CA International Book, Print and Paper Fair May 18 & 19, 2002 American Book Fairs, Inc. will hold the Glendale International Book, Print and Paper Fair on May 18 & 19, 2002, at the Glendale Civic Auditorium, 1401 No. Verdugo Rd., Glendale, California. The hours are Saturday 10 AM – 6 PM, Sunday 11 AM – 4 PM. 110 fine local, national and international dealers will exhibit and sell collectible, antiquarian and rare books, maps and prints. For more information: Phone: 1-480-860-2400, Fax: 1-888-4801-8070, URL: http://www.americanbookfairs.com. BE SURE TO STOP BY THE IOBA TABLE AND SAY “HELLO”! COLORADO SPRINGS ANNUAL BOOK SEMINAR – 2002 The Out-of-Print & Antiquarian Book Market Seminar–an intensive one week program for booksellers and collectors at all levels of experience–will be held again this year at Colorado College in Colorado Springs, CO. Now in its 24th year, the seminar has graduated more than 2,000 participants, many of whom have become prominent figures in the antiquarian book world. The seminar opens on Sunday, August 4, 2002 and concludes on Friday, August 9, 2002. The curriculum has been constantly updated to reflect the important changes that have taken place in the antiquarian and out-of-print book world in the past decade. An all-star faculty with a combined experience of many years in all phases of bookselling will preside over sessions covering such topics as pricing and description of antiquarian books and manuscripts, the auction process, internet bookselling, book scouting, ethics of the book trade, book repairs and restoration, operating a used book store, book fairs, the economics of the book trade, and more. Enrollment is limited. For more information, please contact Kathy Lindeman, Coordinator, at (719)473-6634, or visit the seminar’s web site at: http://www.bookseminars.com where on-line applications can be filed. N.B. ABAA Woodburn Scholarships for CO Seminar DAVID GREGOR’S BOOKSELLING WORKSHOP, MAY 19, 2002, PHOENIX, AZ The third road appearance of Book Seminars International’s presentation of David Gregor’s Strategic Bookselling Workshop and Book Collecting for Fun & Profit programs will take place May 18th & 19th at the Crowne Plaza Phoenix Downtown, located at 100 North First Street. If you want to learn how to improve your book business and increase profits, then you’ll want to join us for our one-of-a-kind book collecting and bookselling programs. Our events in Boston brought over 50 booksellers and collectors together in a spirited exchange of fresh perspectives, and we would like to share the same dynamic material with you. Quite a few attendees in my seminars who have also taken the week-long program in Colorado and they all tell me that the two programs cover very different material and compliment one another. The Strategic Bookselling Workshop (Sunday May 19, 9am-5pm) is for new and experienced booksellers, brick & mortar and Internet only, who want to increase their sales by learning the 12 truths of profit building, developing a niche, refining a profitable customer base, transitioning your business and much more. If you (or an employee) need to more accurately describe editions and stock condition, understand the collectible book market, learn how to research books and more accurately assess values, Book Collecting for Fun & Profit will help you in those skill areas. A one-year subscription to Firsts Magazine is included with the collecting program. The cost for each program is $195. Programs are limited to pre-paid attendees. No walk-ups will be admitted. To learn more about these programs, visit http://www.gregorbooks.com, email them at: seminars@gregorbooks.com, or call them at 206.937.6223. For 2002, Book Seminars International will also be delivering programs in Atlanta, Denver, Santa Monica, and Seattle. BOOKTRAKKER: NEW REVISION COMING By Andy Gutterman URL: http://www.booktrakker.com/default.htm A new version of BookTrakker is on its way. The largest change is compatibility with any user in any country, along with some small, added features: User editing of Edition, Printing and Publisher, allowing additions and deletions to the lists; Recursive Hit Lists, where you can use the results of a Hit List to create a new list; plus the addition of a couple of Actions on Hit lists to enable changing the Book/DJ fields globally and to Append data to the end of selected fields. Some obvious bugs have been fixed, and a few other cosmetic changes were made, such as menu and mouse driven editing features. A major overhaul is planned after this updated version is released, which should be by early June, if not sooner. To apply for an ABAA-sponsored scholarship to the Out-of-Print & Antiquarian Book Market Seminar at Colorado Springs, Colorado (dates: Aug. 4-9): Write a one-page letter about your interest in books and why you in particular should be awarded such. Send it to: The Woodburn Fund, c/o ABAA, 20 West 44th St., 4th Fl., NY, NY 10036 The deadline for the letter is July 1, 2002