Lily Chen – AddAll.com Meta-site Search Engine

URLS : http://www.addall.com (new book search), http://used.addall.com/ (used book search), http://www.amusicarea.com (CDs), http://www.amoviearea.com (DVD & VHS), http://www.amagarea.com(magazine subscriptions) .

Email: pr@addall.com

Lily, when did AddALL actually start business? And can you tell us who was involved, and how you actually came up with your streamlined format and gathered the personnel talent to start your company?

AddALL started business in August 1998. Hup wrote the software. I helped with non-technical issues. Both of us had other jobs till recently so we used to run AddALL in late evenings and on weekends. We worked from the corners of our bedrooms and had “board meetings” at my dining room table. Hup became full-time with AddALL a year ago and I this past July. We didn’t have an office till last November.

I have to confess that we didn’t always have this streamlined format. There were a few weeks in AddALL’s early history that we, like almost everybody else then, featured banner ads. However, we soon decided to make AddALL banner ads free because we found banner ads extremely irritating and wanted to spare our users the pain.

We have been recruiting mostly among acquaintances. AddALL is an “Internet-ional” company. Our team members have been working and collaborating with each other from all over the world to serve users from all over the world via the internet.

Are the original founders of the company all still involved? What role do you personally fill? For instance, do you have a programming manager, a business manager, etc.?

Yes. Hup’s still the tech guy; I’m still the biz gal. AddALL is too small for serious business titles. We joked that if we had to call ourselves something more important, Hup would be the CTO—cheap technical officer, and me the CEO—chief errands officer.

Where and how did you come up with the idea of the quotes? I love that—always take the time to read them! Did you have to obtain permission to use each? And how many different quotes are there, total? Are they rotated on a random basis?

It just hit me one day. I wanted to share something meaningful with AddALL users. I’ve always liked quotes and used to keep a journal of my favorite quotes in different languages.

I don’t believe we need to obtain permission since we do not use the quotes for profit. In addition, many quotes are in the public domain.

There are hundreds of quotes, all handpicked by AddALL team members. At first we had only Tagore quotes because both Hup and I like Tagore a lot. We like his messages promoting compassion, tolerance, appreciation, and non-violence. After a while, some users complained that “talking trees and birds and bees” drove them crazy. So we took some time and added more variety.

Yes, we rotate the quotes on a random basis.

How does your fee schedule work that you charge databases being searched by AddALL?

We ask an affiliate-to-be to choose one of three options that suits their budget and needs: 1) a monthly flat fee based on volume of books listed on a site; or 2) a per click-through fee based on numbers of queries we direct to their site; or 3) sales commission if a site already has an affiliate program. We also accept or offer traffic exchange in supplement of any of the above-mentioned choices.

I really like your “strict” search feature that you’ve added—it does seem to completely cut out paperbacks when you ask for a hardback (though not so accurate if you ask for paperbacks only) and it is still very speedy. I do notice, however, that if you ask for a first edition that book club hardbacks still are in the search results. Do you have any plans for further refining this strict search to only return results mentioning first (or 1st) edition? Or is this an impossible dream, given the many ways booksellers describe their books?

Yes it’s technically possible and we do have plans to work on it. We keep improving our site by adding new features and fixing bugs. Hup promised to work on it once he finishes coding for our magazine site (http://www.amagazinearea.com).

I notice that you’ve recently added some sister sites, http://www.amusicarea.com/, for music, and http://www.amoviearea.com/, for movies. From a casual look at these, it appears that currently they are only for new items—do you have plans to extend these sites into the used market? And, are these search sites built on the same technology you used for AddALL’s book searches? How are they working out for you?

Music and movies are completely new territories for us. There is still a lot we need to learn. We have a backlog of things we want to, need to, and simply must do. We do not plan to enter the used market anytime soon.

We borrowed a thing or two from AddALL’s book search, but we are using mostly more advanced and newer technologies that were not available when we wrote the book search program.

Do you see AddALL expanding into other markets in the future? If not giving away business plans, are you currently working on any such expansions?

Yes. Yes. And no further comments without giving away our business plans. You will see the expansions as they happen.

You say on your site that the people involved in AddALL are book readers. Who are some of these people, and what types of book do each of you enjoy?

Please see a combined answer below.

We’d love to get to know each of you involved in AddALL a bit as people. Could you each tell us a bit about yourselves, i.e., backgrounds, hobbies, etc.?

Sure. Following “bios” are either provided by an AddALL member him/herself, or compiled by me with their input and approval.

For Hup

Born in Malaysia. Went to college in Taiwan. Dual degrees in psychology and information science. Native in the Perl language. Also speaks Mandarin Chinese, Fukienese (a Chinese dialect), and a little Malay. Enjoys badminton, skiing and paintball when his feet, which he injured when practicing Tae Kwon, do not hurt. Lives in Arcadia, California. Besides being partners, Hup and Lily have been close friends for years.

Favorite authors: Tagore (as far as I know.)

Favorite books: ??? ……. (He gave me a blank look when I asked him this question. He’s been doing so much programming recently for our magazine comparison site (amagarea.com) that all he can recall is computer books and those are NOT his favorites.)

(Hup does almost all of the complex programming behind AddALL’s simple looking web sites.)

From Lily

I came to Los Angeles in 1991 from Shanghai, China. Though I don’t like school and am a frequent drop-out, I’ve always loved to read. I focus so much when I read that I’d tune out completely. As a child, one afternoon when playing hide-and-seek I hid under a desk and read till my father finally found me in the evening. My cousins had given up a long time ago and the adults thought I was missing. Later I was punished for “reading without proper lighting or breaks.”

Though my degrees are in Japanese Culture and business, my favorite genres are poems, essays, science, and medical books. The first time I stayed up all night to read a book, it was about quantum physics. However, recently I’ve been reading mostly business and legal titles. My favorite authors include Hugo, Dickens, Twain, Asimov, Jules Verne, Saint-Exupery, Anderson, and O Henry. I also enjoy classical Chinese and Japanese works.

I like daydreaming, playing the piano, listening to classic music, taking walks, doing flower arrangements and gardening. I’m also trying to learn to whistle, swim, and ride a bicycle. I hope someday my earning power will match my ambitions in charity, and I’d have more time to read, write, and do volunteer work.

(I manage non-technical issues at AddALL.)

From Gail

I joined AddALL in August, 2000, having known (and appreciated) Lily for several years. I have been an avid reader all my life and actually don’t mind my current bouts with insomnia, as they give me time in the middle of the night for a good, solid read. I have lived long enough to have done all sorts of things, from running an experimental multi-arts theater on St. Mark’s Place in NY (in the 60s) to running a building site that called itself a hotel on the island of Crete (in the 80s). I am a pre-school teacher by profession and for many years most of my favorite friends and acquaintances were under the age of five. I have taught English as a Foreign Language to adults in Poland, China and Egypt and can now say that many of my favorite friends and acquaintances speak English as their second or third language. In addition to my work at AddALL.com, I conduct individualized rare book searches for a local independent bookstore, where AddALL makes me look good. I have been married to Robert Westbrook for 25 years, have two wonderful sons and two grandsons who are, of course, extraordinary in every way.

I read more fiction than non-fiction – my favorite author of the moment is Proust (my husband excepted, of course) and favorite poet of the moment is Billy Collins.

(Gail answers each and every one of the customer service e-mails, and provides editing services to AddALL .)

From Robert

Robert has loved books since an early age, both as a reader and a writer. His first book, Journey Behind The Iron Curtain, was published by G.P. Putnam’s when he was seventeen years old, a journal of a high school trip to the Soviet Union. A few years later he published a novel based on his student days at Columbia College in the 1960s, The Magic Garden of Stanley Sweetheart , that was made into an MGM film starring Don Johnson. He has gone on to write 13 books, fiction and non-fiction, including Intimate Lies, a critically-acclaimed account of F. Scott Fitzgerald’s final years in Hollywood, two separate mystery series, and two novels based on screenplays, The Mexican and Insomnia. His most recent mystery, Ancient Enemy, published by Signet, was nominated for a Shamus Award.

Robert lives in New Mexico with his wife Gail. He loves to travel, play jazz piano, and ski. He is also particularly fond of sushi. In the past five years, he has been teaching writing at the Taos Institute of Art and on Cape Cod. You can learn more about Robert on his website, robertwestbrook.com

(Robert pens the weekly book chats for AddALL.)

For Stephen

Born in Shanghai, educated in Japan, he now lives in Vancouver, Canada. He is the design guy as well as the peacekeeper at AddALL. He has been Lily’s buddy and make-do shrink for years.

His favorite books include: Rich Dad and Poor Dad, Dreams of the Red Chamber (a Chinese classic), and martial arts novels by Jin Yong. Recently he’s been devouring books on entrepreneurship. His dream is to have his own trade or computer company, create jobs and give something back to his adopted motherland of Canada.

For hobbies, he likes Karaoke (sing-along), golfing, and making people laugh. He loves life itself and thinks every moment is a wonderful moment.

(Stephen brought you the HELP guides.)

For Nancy

Her friendship with Lily began at age two and has deepened throughout the years. A newly wed, she lives in Shanghai and is expecting (very nervously!) her first baby (or babies, as she hopes).

Her favorite things include eating gourmet food (the more cheese and calories in it the better), travel, shopping, counting money and daydreaming of making more money, and writing short stories and essays.

Nancy likes reading novels and has published in newspapers. A few of her favorite books are: Gone with the Wind , The Yearling , and The Thorn Birds . Her favorite authors include Mark Twain, Yi Shu, and Aileen Chang.

(Nancy brought you the Chinese version of AddALL.)

Thank you so much, Lily, for allowing us to interview you!

Thank you for inviting AddALL to “meet” your members and let people know us better. Now that both Hup and I have gone fulltime with AddALL, I hope we will do better at improving our existing services and bringing out new ones.

#SearchEngines

Brendan Sherar – Searchbiblio.com Meta-site Search Engine

URL: http://www.searchbiblio.com

The short of SearchBiblio.com is that it was established in October, 2000 under the name of biblio.com. In October of 2001, the site was moved from biblio.com to SearchBiblio.com, in order to free up the biblio.com address for other plans we have underway.

The essential idea was that we could provide a fast and clean alternative to the major engines (our average search weighs in at under 10 seconds). SearchBiblio.com is a service which is run by biblio.com, Inc, of which I am presently president, programmer and janitor. Essentially it is a “one-man” operation, except for those rare times when I may need to bring in an independent contractor to pitch in.

The number of sites we search, and the list have been subjected to some change, but at last count, we are searching 13 sites (Half.com, abebooks.com, Alibris, Powells.com, Amazon.com, ElephantBooks, Books-A-Million, BookCloseOuts.com, Bookavenue.com, Antiqbook, ILAB-LILA, Barnes & Noble.com, and Library Book Sales).

Currently, our traffic is modest, with about 13,000 visitors a month (a number which I’d like to see grow, naturally).

I personally have a background in English literature (almost anything written from 17th century to present, I am currently on a magical-realism kick with some Garcia Marquez and Fred Chappell, with some 13th century Mediterranean history on the side. I had several years as a bookseller (online and brick-and-mortar), and several years as a database and technology consultant for libraries, newspapers, museums, and universities, as well as other businesses.

Currently, I work for Gannett Co., Inc., as the online production manager of its Asheville, NC paper (the Asheville Citizen-Times), and live in nearby Waynesville. I am married (Tracy Paige) with two daughters, aged one (Katherine) and three (Sophia). Attached is one of the few photos approved by my wife – of Tracy, Sophia, and myself (c. 2000).

#SearchEngines

Anirvan Chatterjee and Charlie Hsu, BookFinder.com

Anirvan Chatterjee and Charlie Hsu, BookFinder.com

To start off, Anirvan, you’ve been generous with information about yourself, somewhat generous with information about Charlie (let’s see if we can’t get you out and talking about yourself, Charlie) and very generous with information about BookFinder.com.

If I may, though, I’m going to dig a bit deeper.

You’re both twentysomethings living in a high tech area, based as you are in Berkeley, CA, doing high tech work and, in many ways, living the “good life.” From what you’ve written, Anirvan, can we assume that running BookFinder.com doesn’t leave much time for either of you to be party (or family) animals? Is it all work and no play, aside from work and reading, though? Some questions for you both follow.

Anirvan and Charlie, do you see yourselves continuing to run BookFinder.com for many years, or forever, or??? Do you think, since you have so many of the programming problems solved and have the site running smoothly, that it will continue to be gratifying emotionally, financially and intellectually for both of you?

Anirvan: Many things get easier over time, but there are always new challenges to be met. For example, we’ve been working for over a year now on a set of infrastructure improvements to BookFinder.com that (among many other things) will help users search for books in languages other than English. I’m currently working on a project to figure out how we can best improve new users’ experience with the site. This stuff goes on. I love what I do, and I’m fortunate to be able to work with good friends. I can’t imagine being bored anytime soon.

Charlie: I think Anirvan has said a lot of what I would say. While many problems are solved, there are always more problems to tackle, more interesting things to try.

Anirvan, when you originally conceived of the idea of a multi-database book search, what triggered the idea, i.e., was it being unable to find books you personally wanted, or what? How did you go about deciding what would work as a metasearch through book databases? Was it a trial and error process, or one of those inspired ideas that seem to sprout full-grown into your consciousness? Did you talk this idea over with Charlie at the time?

Anirvan: I got interested in developing a book search tool based directly on my experiences as a book shopper. I’d been buying books online for some time, particularly stuff that I couldn’t find locally. Jumping between sites in order to check on prices and availability got frustrating very quickly. Developing a metasearch system was a way of scratching that itch.

In the fall of 1996, while I was an undergraduate at UC Berkeley, I took an information science seminar on the theory and practice of network agent systems. We had to develop a prototype network agent system as a class project; I chose to build a network agent that would help me find and buy books. The site grew from there. I got an ‘A’ in the class, and I put a version of the software online in January 1997. I made pretty heavy use of the software early on to help me complete my collection of Doonesbury titles — nearly fifty volumes in total, most out of print.

Most of the improvements to the site came incrementally. I didn’t initially think of including options to search for signed books or first editions, or even a keywords field. We’ve continuously been making little tweaks here and there, often based on user feedback.

Charlie, when did you first start working with Anirvan on the book-search database? And does BookFinder.com, as a mental and professional challenge, suit you still?

Charlie: Officially, I started working with BookFinder.com after I graduated from UC Davis in 1999. Unofficially, I’d been helping out since even before the site was launched in 1997. I even built the site’s first server, back in the very beginning. BookFinder.com suits me as a challenge because it lets me do things I wouldn’t normally get to do. Running a small business, you have to become proficient in a lot of skills. BookFinder.com helps keep me from being pigeonholed into just being a coder.

Charlie and Anirvan, is one or the other of you the “idea” person and the other the “programming person”? Or do you both work on all functions of your business?

Anirvan: We both do programming and planning/design stuff. We handle different parts of the technology — Charlie works with the databases and the complex guts of the system, I work with the interface and search code. Otherwise, I’m more involved with marketing, advertising sales, bookseller relations, etc. Charlie handles the financial and legal side of the business. That’s just us; we also have part-timers and consultants working on support, marketing, design, accounting, etc. Running a site like BookFinder.com is a big job!

Anirvan and Charlie, can you foresee BookFinder.com morphing into metasearches for other products besides books?

Charlie: We’ve thought about metasearching other types of products, but decided against it. Every kind of product has its own complexity. The technology is only one part of building a comparison shopping engine and, at least to a technologist like me, the easier side. There’s a huge amount of knowledge about books and the online book industry that we’ve accumulated, which we use while working on the site. It would take a long time to get that knowledge in other fields.

Anirvan and Charlie, has the overall super-abundance of more common books and part-time booksellers affected your business negatively or positively (aside from requiring more computing resources, of course)?

Anirvan: Compared to two years ago, we’ve found that when given the choice, somewhat fewer users opt to buy new books, perhaps due to the greater availability of cheap used copies. Not much else. We identify a lot with booksellers but, in the end, our allegiance is to the customer; the presence of “kitchen table” booksellers and larger online inventories helps consumers by increasing selection, and driving down prices.

Anirvan and Charlie, I read in one of your press releases that there are 40,000 of us booksellers online now: was this a mistake or are there truly that many people listing used books online now (last I’d heard was around 10,000)? For instance, I wondered if many of us listing on several databases had inflated the apparent number of booksellers.

Anirvan: We include in our count the most active “kitchen table” booksellers from sites like Half.com; the figure’s not inflated.

Both of you, again. Do you have any plans (that you wouldn’t mind giving away, of course) about other types of businesses, whether computer or book-based or not, that either of you are considering or would be interested in for the future?

Anirvan: We see a lot of room for growth in the used book area. Most of our future plans revolve around that sector.

Both of you, why do you continue with BookFinder.com Insider? Even with it being an essentially unmoderated list, it must take many hours of your time and add to your work week. Do you get ideas about what’s needed for your business from the list? Do you just enjoy the chatter of book people? Even though we all love having the list I know we must drive you nuts at times, and I’m curious about why you put up with some of our antics.

Anirvan: We love the list. It’s frustrating to run at times, but we get a lot out of it. As with many list members, being involved with the Insider list is a way for us to keep an ear to the ground of what’s going on in the world of online bookselling. We’ve also really gotten to know some of the list members. The community’s crucial; the BookFinder.com Insider started off as a stale tech support mailing list — it’s the list’s members that give it some soul.

Charlie, how did you and Anirvan meet (I know it was during high school, but what brought and kept you two together)? Were you both “into” information technology as it existed then?

Charlie: We actually met in the locker bays of our junior high school. The lockers were assigned alphabetically by last name. I had a good friend whose last name was Chang. Anirvan’s last name is Chatterjee, so the three of us met by my friend’s locker. We all started talking, and eventually became friends. We had a great computer science teacher in high school, so we were learning how to run our school’s Unix network back in the days of the pre-commercial Internet (this would be the early 90s). I still remember when we first saw Mosaic (the first graphical web browser), and how surprised we were the first time we saw a URL advertised on TV.

Anirvan, how did your reading about and the reality of India coincide when you visited your grandparents? Was that your first trip to India, by the way?

Anirvan: I’ve been visiting my extended family in Kolkata (formerly Calcutta) every year or two, all my life, so I’ve always felt pretty connected to the place. I can’t say that I’ve ever had to deal with any substantial culture shock, either in the US or in India.

Anirvan, why mysteries? Is solving problems such a deep part of your personality that it is fun for you even when relaxing and reading? Or is reading mysteries when you can turn off your brain and really relax?

Anirvan: Definitely the latter. I’m an embarrassingly unsophisticated mystery reader. I miss obvious clues, and have to wait till the conclusion to find out whodunit. Recently, I’ve been reading a lot of mysteries set in Berkeley, California (where I live and work). I’m enjoying seeing how different writers take on the city’s quirks in print.

Anirvan, I’ve seen your lists of books read on the BookFinder.com site. What are your favorites, current and past? Is there a particular type of book or author you collect?

Anirvan: I read pretty widely (and buy books accordingly). Stuff I’ve been into over the past few years include Isaac Asimov novels, 1960s radical librarian literature, black science fiction, Russian novelists, anti-technology commentary, graphic novels, and punk music history. But to the extent that I can say that I collect anything, I’m probably most into English language fiction from the South Asian diaspora — authors like Salman Rushdie or Arundhati Roy.

To indulge my compulsive need for list-making, here are some of my favorite underhyped lit titles from the South Asian diaspora:

* “The Shadow Lines” by Amitav Ghosh (India) * “Afternoon Raag” by Amit Chaudhuri (India) * “English, August” by Upamanyu Chatterjee (India) * “Anita and Me” by Meera Syal (UK) * “Once Upon An Elephant” by Ashok Mathur (Canada) * “Junglee Girl” by Ginu Kamani (US) * anything by Ved Mehta (US)

Charlie, I’m assuming you are a reader, also? What do you like to read, and what appeals to you about those choices?

Charlie: I’m a really big fantasy/sci-fi fan. It probably comes from my interest in ancient and medieval European history. On the other hand, maybe it’s because I’m such a big fantasy fan that I’m so into history. One of those chicken and egg things, I guess.

Charlie, have you made up a `books read’ list like Anirvan’s? If so, what are some of those books (and even if you don’t have an official list, what do you like to read)? Which are your favorites, and why? And do you read much about your cultural or ethnic heritage?

Charlie: Anirvan, as you may have noted, is very much a list person. He keeps lots of lists in his life, and a reading list is very natural for him. I, on the other hand, am not a list person; I’m far too disorganized to do something like that.

Favorite books? Well, let’s see, it’s hard to say, there have been so many…I’ve always enjoyed humor, the books in Douglas Adams’ “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” series are some of my favorites. More recently, I discovered Terry Pratchett and am quickly on my way through reading all of his Discworld novels. “The Name of the Rose” by Umberto Eco — murder, mystery, monks, a Sherlock Holmes-like character, all set in medieval times — what’s not to like? Finally back to the classic fantasy genre, the Thomas Covenant series (“Lord Foul’s Bane”, “The Illearth War”, “The Power That Preserves”) serves up a slight twist to the generic fantasy world.

Charlie, Anirvan has written that he had pretty much an upper middle class U.S. upbringing. How about you? My understanding is that you were born in Taiwan, but grew up mostly in the San Francisco Bay area. Did you grow up with mostly Western values and heritage, a mixture of Twaiwanese and Western, or a traditional heritage? Have you visited Taiwan since moving to the U.S.?

Charlie: When I think of my upbringing, the best way I have to describe it is to say that I’m a second generation immigrant from Taiwan. I grew up with a mix of values, both American and Taiwanese, with many of my friends around me growing up the same.

Charlie, I understand you have many hobbies besides books and your programming. Anirvan has said he’s seen you juggling flaming torches, for instance. How did you get interested in juggling, and how long did it take you and how many different types of objects being juggled to get to the flaming torches level? Any burns along the way???

Also, Charlie, I understand you’ve dabbled in fencing, whittling and woodworking. Are any of these still hobbies? Could you tell us how you got interested in each, and how proficient you became at them?

Charlie: Fencing, juggling, woodworking all came about after high school. During college, I decided that I wanted to do something else besides just taking classes every quarter. UC Davis had a great program called the Experimental College, with classes taught by members of the community. I tried fencing because I wanted some sort of exercise to keep me in shape. A good friend of mine also fenced and encouraged me to join. (Also, you can’t tell me there isn’t something cool about the idea of swashbuckling.) After about 3 years of fencing, I still consider myself pretty much a beginner, and I haven’t fenced in several years now.

Juggling was just something I’ve always wanted to learn. My roommate and I signed up for juggling classes together. The funny thing about juggling is that once you learn to pass clubs, juggling becomes a very social event as people get together to play together; it’s not just one person off doing tricks alone. I can juggle up to four balls at a time, or three clubs, or three torches, which can be thought of as clubs with flames at the end. No major burns, though I lose knuckle hair every time I try it.

As for woodworking, I’ve always been a craft-oriented person. Programming is fulfilling in many ways, but what you create is so ephemeral, I wanted something solid, thus whittling and woodworking. I’m still a rank beginner, but my eventual goal is to make my own furniture.

Anirvan, you write beautifully and eloquently. Are you ever intending to try to write a book? Have you had papers or books published? If you did ever decide to write professionally, what would you write about?

Anirvan: Thanks. I dabble with an article here and there, but haven’t done much writing otherwise. As with so many things, it’s a matter of not having enough time.

I idolize the technology/culture journalism from about 1992 to 1996 — that’s something I wish I could have been involved in (the fact that I was still in high school at the time was something of an impediment). Most mainstream journalists didn’t even know which stories to investigate; others fell into the trap of recycling existing metaphors. But writers like Paulina Borsook, Steve Silberman, Simson Garfinkel, and Howard Rheingold were part of the first wave of smart internet-savvy journalists writing about the social implications of these new technologies, trying to write critically about a medium that was changing by the day. Exciting stuff. There’s a Library of America anthology of American journalism during the Vietnam War; I won’t be terribly surprised if, some decades from now, there’s a similar anthology of journalism from the early networked era.

Anirvan and Charlie, aside from reading and working, what do you like to do? Do you enjoy art, traveling, concerts, animals, sports, or???

Anirvan: Nothing out of the ordinary. I try to spend time with friends and family, and attend concerts, plays, and movies. I end up making three or four film festivals a year (the San Francisco Bay Area’s a great place for the arts).

Charlie: Aside from the hobbies I mentioned, I enjoy watching movies — comedies and (not surprisingly) period pieces. I boot up the occasional video game, and enjoy hanging out with friends.

Anirvan and Charlie, I just finished reading “The Blue Nowhere” by Deaver, and was quite surprised to find so many supposed characteristics I shared with hackers (and I’m not at all a programmer, just a compulsive computer user). Do you “legal” programmers do the same things as hackers? Like eat sweets or drink the strongest caffeine drinks you can find to keep alert for long hours at the computer (that one I share), never drink alcohol or use “anything” that would make you drowsy and unable to function at the computer, have to shave off calluses on your finger tips from keyboarding so many hours (makes me glad I learned to type (pardon, keyboard) with fingernails), wander around at 4:00 a.m. in online chat rooms looking for other computer-compulsive night owls even after your “official” work is over, wear out keyboards at a fantastic rate, be able to “feel” if your computer is being hacked or interfered with in some way from response time either in the drive or monitor, drive noises, etc., or program for 36 hours straight with no sleep? How much of this stuff is correct for you true computer mavens? And hey, is either of you going to admit to ever hacking – in your younger, wilder days, of course? :>)

Charlie: Well, as with many such portrayal of hackers, this contains a grain of truth, but some of it is exaggerated for dramatic effect. Many of my friends who are coders do tend to be habitual coffee drinkers, but these days, who isn’t? I don’t think my keyboard wears out any faster than most. Almost all the coders I know, including myself, are night owls. I’ve tried to cut back on the all-nighters (I’m not as young as I used to be, you know.)

Hacking in our younger, wilder days? <laughs> Can I take the fifth? No seriously, because we became system administrators to our high school network, we spent a lot more time keeping our system running than trying to go out and “hack.”

Anirvan, you’ve written about feeling “racialized” after 9/11 because of your Indian appearance. Was this a phenomenon that you felt primarily immediately after 9/11, and were there actual occurrences of discrimination against you or any of your Indian friends? Does this feeling (or do these occurrences) still persist today? Would you care to comment on how this felt to a U.S. citizen of Indian descent?

Anirvan: My parents are from India, but that’s only one part of who I am. When I talk about feeling “racialized,” I mean that in the days and weeks after 9/11, it was very difficult to think of myself as anything other than someone of the wrong skin color. I’ve encountered explicit in-your-face racism a couple of times, but it tends to be something I can ignore. I’ve rarely felt physically vulnerable. The domestic backlash after 9/11 changed that.

My parents called me the morning of 9/11 to let me know what was happening. In the midst of our shock, it was very clear to all of us that there would be a huge backlash. Through websites, newsgroups, and mailing lists, I kept hearing about Americans of Middle Eastern and South Asian heritage getting attacked, people being jeered at, schoolchildren assaulted, businesses threatened. There was a rock thrown through the window of one of my favorite Pakistani lunch spots in San Francisco. A friend’s brother was refused service at a restaurant. Everyone got glares. It wasn’t a good time. I got involved with a group doing hate crime education in the South Asian community; a lot of people were scared to report incidents, for fear of calling further attention to themselves.

It’s unfortunate that as thousands were dying after the terrorist attacks, we immediately started turning on our own. If the aftermath of the 1997 Oklahoma City bombing had been anything like that of 9/11, Irish-Americans and Gulf War veterans would have had to fear for their safety after bomber Timothy McVeigh was identified. Just goes to show far we have to go as Americans to overcome our -isms. It takes a long time to shed the stigma of being the “Other”; it may take another fifty years before Indians are as accepted as Italians, Hinduism as accepted as Judaism.

Both of you, I have some questions from my personal point of view. I grew up in an era when typing and data entry was primarily a low-paid woman’s job. Now, with computers affecting almost every aspect of our lives, we’ve all been turned into “typists” and for much longer hours than typists worked in the old days (and in many instances, for less pay per hour). I realize it is called “keyboarding” these days, and that modern day keyboarding is, for programmers at least, simply the current method of getting the machine to do what you want it to do. But do you ever get the feeling that you’re chained to that darned keyboard? Do you really get those calluses on your fingertips? Do you both have carpal tunnel syndrome? Do you think the day will soon come when you can program by speaking, rather than keyboarding? And, in that vein, what advances in computer technology do you anticipate in the near future?

Charlie: I don’t think it’s so much chained to the keyboard as chained to work in general. The computer is nothing more than a tool to get things done, and the keyboard is just an input tool. I could sit here and talk for hours on end about what I think of the future of technology (and no doubt be mostly wrong), but briefly, I don’t think that voice technology for programmers will be ready anytime soon. There have been many interesting developments in the pursuit of lighter, smaller, flat screens that are easier on the eyes. Once they can get something thin, light, and approaching the resolution of printed text, ebooks will look that much more appealing.

You asked about typing calluses. So far, that hasn’t been a problem. My biggest worries are actually carpal tunnel syndrome, and possible damage to my eyes from staring at a monitor for 9+ hours a day. Luckily, nothing has happened so far but it’s always a concern.

Thanks to you both, Anirvan and Charlie!

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